Hidden Pet Poisons You Didn’t Know About | SOP Ep. 88 – Dr. Renee Schmid

Speaking of Pets | Dr. Renee Schmid | Pet Poisons

 

Veterinary toxicologist Dr. Renee Schmid returns to co-host with Alice and breaks down the surprising ways everyday supplements, human medications, gummies, and topicals can put pets at risk—especially during the holidays when visitors (and their Ziploc pill bags!) roll in. From multivitamins and “grass saver” methionine to tryptophan chews, alpha-lipoic acid, minoxidil, diclofenac creams, estrogen gels, 5-FU topical creams, tea tree oil, and even chewable Apoquel around cats, Dr. Schmid explains what’s dangerous, why, and what to do before panic takes over. Plus: practical storage hacks, vet-approved brands vs. online counterfeits, and the one line you should say to every house guest.

Dr. Renee Schmid is the Veterinary Medical Director and Senior Toxicologist at Pet Poison Helpline. She and her team field cases across North America and collaborate with human toxicologists and pharmacists to manage emerging exposures and new human drugs affecting pets.

Pet Poison Helpline is available 24/7/365 and will be listed in the show notes (add the number to your phone!). They’ll triage, advise if your vet visit is needed, and support your veterinarian from start to finish.

 

You’ll Learn

 

Resources:

Pet Poison Helpline (24/7) — (855) 764-7661

Pet Poison Helpline website (what to expect, toxin library)

NASC Quality Seal & ConsumerLab.com for product quality checks (ask your veterinarian for trusted brands)

Important: This episode is educational and not medical advice. If you suspect an exposure, call your veterinarian or Pet Poison Helpline immediately (see show notes).

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Listen to the podcast here

 

Hidden Pet Poisons You Didn’t Know About – Dr. Renee Schmid

Our special guest is a repeat offender. You know that when we have a specialist on twice, it means they’re almost a co-host. Dr. Renee Schmid will be wearing two hats. She’s going to be co-hosting because my co-host sister, Janet, couldn’t be with us. Dr. Renee Schmid, if you remember, is the Veterinary Medical Director for Pet Poison Helpline as well as their Senior Toxicologist.

For those of you who don’t have the Pet Poison Helpline phone number on your phone, please do it. I can tell you from personal experience that when you find that empty pill bottle, that half-opened bag of fertilizer, or the half-eaten chocolate candy bar, you are going to be frantic. Have that number at your fingertips to call them for $89, which is the lowest cost of any poison-type network in this country, probably in the world for that matter.

They not only go over with you if your veterinarian needs to see your pet, because not all ingested things need a veterinary examination. If they do determine that, they follow your pet from start to finish and advise your veterinarian on how to treat whatever it was your pet got into. Dr. Schmid, I can’t be more thankful for you appearing with us.

Thank you for having me. Thank you for that great explanation of what we do, why we’re here and for your support, which is very much appreciated.

Treating Pets And Providing Support To People

I imagine one of your main functions is calming people down.

The old saying was that people get into veterinary medicine because they love animals. They have to have a love of people as well, in communication and understanding that there’s always a human that’s attached to that animal. We are working with that human as much as we’re working with that animal. People panic as well and they should be, and often very reasonably so.

They notice their pet got into something that they don’t think they should have or could have been wrong. They’re fearful. They’re like, “What if this is going to kill my pet? What if I can’t get it here in time? What if I don’t have the finances for the care?” That’s our human brain that gets us thinking on a common, consistent basis of all the what-ifs that go into it. A lot of it is that we need to calm down and take a deep breath so that we can think clearly, get the right information we need, put all the pieces of the puzzle together, and make the right next step recommendation.

The other thing I love about Pet Poison Helpline is that it has veterinary specialists, toxicologists, internal medicine specialists, pharmacy specialists, PharmD degrees, and human medical doctors. I love your idea for that. There are so many explosions of human drugs that we don’t have in veterinary medicine. It’s so nice that you have MDs on staff that you can consult with and say, “What is this new drug? We don’t have it in vet med. What do we do now?” That’s a wonderful idea.

We’ve been in business for many years. There are two arms to us. There is SafetyCall International, which is on the industry side. We will help represent various pharmaceutical companies and chemical companies for animals and humans who have gotten into their products or have had an adverse reaction. We have Pet Poison Helpline, which is one where we will help any pet owner for any species of animal for anything they may have gotten into.

Since we’re a connected company, I hate to say we’re different because we all work under the same umbrella and together. We’re able to utilize all the human staff on the industry side. We have access to them all the time. They’re not answering our calls. They’re not telling us how to treat an animal. For that pet owner calling in, you’re talking to veterinarians and veterinary technicians, but we have access to them 24 hours a day.

Several years ago, the FDA used to have studies that were required to be done in animals before they went to human studies and human trials. In their effort, which is very reasonable, it is nice not to require animal studies anymore. Honestly, for us as toxicologists, that’s where we got a lot of our information when animals got into things. We lack that on the veterinary side because they don’t require those studies anymore. We get to rely on the education of our human co-workers, who are human pharmacists and human toxicologists, to help us with some of those new drugs that we may not have seen exposures to yet in animals.

Giving Multivitamins To Your Pets

I bet that’s a fun cocktail party when you all get together. One of the reasons I asked Dr. Schmid was because of an article in AVMA News that Dr. Schmid had written about pet supplements and supplements that we take as humans, which can be toxic to our pets that we regard ourselves as non-toxic. Let’s start, for example, with a multivitamin. Let’s say I’m taking Centrum. I come home from the store, and there’s half a bottle lying there, and there’s my dog. Tell me what could be wrong there.

You said it right. We take these supplements all the time. I take vitamins all the time. We think they’re benign, not problematic and are always good for us. If an animal were to get into several of them, no big deal. Unfortunately, there are some ingredients where that isn’t necessarily the case. The big ones that I think about for a standard multivitamin would be Vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 can certainly be problematic, depending on the amount that they get.

Iron is a big one as well, especially a prenatal vitamin or a standalone iron supplement where you’re taking an iron supplement that has a large milligram strength of iron. Those are the two big ones. I also get worried about methionine or alpha-lipoic acid. It depends. Multivitamins can run the gamut in terms of what the ingredients are. Things like Vitamin A and Vitamin C. I don’t get too concerned about that, as well as a lot of the different other minerals that are in there tend to be a big issue.

The gummies worry me, too. The gummies, to me, say, “Come here. This looks sweet,” even for human children.

Gummies can be a whole different beast of their own, where the ingredients may not be a toxic concern, but the amount of gummies that are in there, because of all the different ingredients that make it gummy, like glycerol and some other ingredients. It can cause a fluid shift. The fluid that’s circulating in our body, the body tells it to go into the gut, so we lose fluid. We have this imbalance, and then we end up having electrolyte changes.

Sodium is the big one that we get worried about. We can end up having a high sodium level, which then wreaks havoc on the brain and the nervous system. Even if it’s not a toxic concern, but they get into 30 or 40, depending on the size of the dog, we can see life-threatening issues regardless of what the concerning ingredients are.

It’s because of the “inert ingredients.”

We always have to look at the inactive ingredients that are in there, too. Gummies are a big concern. As for chewables, when they’re flavored and are powdery, chewables is not usually as big an issue. Any large ingestion like that with a pet is something we always have to be concerned about.

Why Methionine In Large Doses Is Unsafe For Your Pets

What about people who are worried about the staining of the grass from the dog’s urination? They give them methionine. That can’t be safe in larger doses, can it? Who knows how much to give of that?

It’s very dangerous in large doses. I was in practice for about thirteen years before joining toxicology as a career. I can remember back then going to a colleague’s clinic, and they had what we call grass savers. It’s some type of product, a supplement that the animal eats. It’s supposed to help keep the change of the pH and things in the urine so that they don’t scald it.

The back of the bottle said, “If this still happens, replant the grass and water the grass.” That’s what the grass needs, anyway. Even before toxicology, I was never a fan because I felt that the body’s urine pH and the body’s excretion of things were made for a purpose. I didn’t want to alter them and potentially cause other issues. In toxicology, I’ve learned how dangerous they are. Most of these all have their main active ingredient of methionine and pretty high concentrations. These guys can cause significant nervous system signs.

We can see difficulty walking, body tremors, and seizures. There are effects because of that. If those continue, they can have negative effects on other areas of the body, too. For me, water your yard more. Dilute where that pet is urinating or pick a spot. I would always tell my clients to pick an area and try to train them to use that particular area, and be okay with not having that nice, pretty green grass, or dilute the water in the yard more frequently.

As veterinarians, we have a dog present to us with seizures. We’re ruling out all the causes of seizures. Either we neglect to ask the owner or the owner neglects to tell us, “I’m giving this methionine supplement,” which could have been the whole cause of the seizure.

It’s a supplement. We get this. When we talk to pet owners or those pet parents and say, “Is your pet on any type of medications?” They’re like, “They’re not on any medications,” because they think of a prescription. We’ve changed that. We’re like, “Are they on any medications or over-the-counter supplements, or anything like that?” Supplements can still be problematic. In human nature, we tend to think it’s a supplement, it’s healthy, it’s okay, and it’s alright if they ingest many of them because it’s not going to be problematic. Unfortunately, the reality couldn’t be any further from that.

In human nature, we find no problem with a supplement. Unfortunately, they can be problematic when ingested by our pets. Share on X

Problems You Could Encounter With Tryptophan

You get animals that need to be “calmed down.” With the holidays coming, a lot of people are coming over. People read that tryptophan is calming. That, to me, sounds like a double-edged sword. I’m not going to go and buy tryptophan and give them 500-milligram tablets of tryptophan. Talk about the problems that I could encounter with that.

There are a lot of calming chews for pets that contain tryptophan. When we talk about these things, they’re safe at their recommended dose. You can give methionine on a daily basis and not have an issue as long as they’re not getting into an excessive amount. My concern is that, 1) I’m not a fan of it, in general, but 2) What if they get into a larger amount? Same thing with these calming chews. With these calming chews, a lot of people give them as treats because they’re flavored. They’re in that little meat flavor. They give them as a treat and immediately empty the bag out because they don’t think that it’s going to be an issue.

One is good. Two is better.

Ten is a waste of money, but not hearty to anybody. Tryptophan converts in the body to serotonin and 5-HTP. Instead of us having this calming effect, a large amount causes the opposite to occur. They’re agitated. They’re bouncing off the walls. They’re pacing. They’re panting. They have body tremors, potentially seizures. They’re vocalizing. They’re out of sorts. Those are things that can happen. If a pet were to take 5-HTP, a human supplement that is taken, they would see those signs much more readily than taking tryptophan. With tryptophan, they need a little bit more because they have to convert, but the effects are going to be the same.

It sounds dangerous to me, too. Let’s say that the pet is already on Prozac. They’re like, “It’s working, but I see on the internet that tryptophan can help.” That, to me, sounds like a dangerous combination.

It certainly could be. I’m a big fan of never giving your pet anything without consulting your veterinarian first, but then also never giving two things without consulting them first. Whether it be a supplement or something that seems very safe and not problematic, if it has an effect, it has an effect. If we’re giving that, it’s because it has an effect.

Do not give your pet two things without consulting your veterinarian first. Share on X

Those are things where I would be concerned. There are certain animals, depending on the dose of the Prozac that they’re taking and the amount of the tryptophan in the calming chew. It might be fine. If they’re on a high dose of Prozac or they’re taking multiple high levels of tryptophan, then certainly, it could be more problematic.

What’s the deal with alpha-lipoic acid?

Alpha-lipoic is another one of these neurologic conditions developed. We see significant neurologic signs in animals for one reason or another. I don’t think we know why they are much more sensitive to alpha-lipoic acid than humans are.

Why would an owner be giving that?

They don’t typically give it. That’s usually the owners taking it themselves. Sometimes, it’s hidden in a multivitamin. Sometimes, it’s hidden in an energy supplement, health supplement, or it is by itself. Animals are extremely sensitive to alpha-lipoic acid for one reason or another. We’ll start to see severe neurologic signs. Seizures aren’t good for anybody.

How To Ensure The Safety Of Your Supplements

When I was in practice, people would ask me about what brand of this particular supplement, which I did want them on, should they get. I belong to ConsumerLabs.com, which is an independent lab. They don’t check a lot of animal ones, but they do quite a few, or the NASC seal. The reason I’m bringing that up is that I read a study where 40% of the turmeric that was coming into this country was adversely affecting people’s livers. There’s also the concern that if you’re buying a supplement that was made in God knows where. How do I know what’s in there unless I’ve seen it approved by NASC or ConsumerLabs.com?

That’s a great comment and a concern because there’s not a lot of regulation in the supplement world, especially on the animal side. What I always encourage is if you want to give your pet something like that, go back to your veterinarian. Ask them questions. Ask them who they recommend. There are certain brands that I feel are very reputable in the veterinary world and that I have used for my own pets.

I’ve made recommendations when I was in practice for clients to use. We carried them in our practice. They do a good job of research. They’re good stewards of their products. They’re not just putting something out, selling it, and making money off of it. They’re making sure they’re doing it the right way, and they’re doing it the ethical way. Your veterinarians know who those brands are, so talk to them. Marketing is great. Get a good marketer, and you can sell anything.

What we want to make sure of is that if you’re going to give your pet something, let’s make sure they need it. It’s so much easier for us to give our pet a balanced diet than it is for humans to ingest a balanced diet. If they’re eating a balanced diet, then you don’t need all those extra supplements. I have an eleven-year-old dog who is starting to slow down a little bit. For sure, I am starting to give her a joint supplement to have that. I’m making sure that I’m using a reputable brand, and I did my research before buying one of the thousands of joint supplements out there.

I like that you brought that up, the question of where to purchase those. Buy it from your veterinarian. We buy it directly from the manufacturer as opposed to buying it online. Where was that made? If you remember years ago, there was a company, and the owner of that company is now in jail, that was selling a counterfeit heartworm preventative. You can buy that online. You may think you’re getting a deal buying this supplement or this medication, which has to be an over-the-counter medication, online. Where is that coming from? Who made that? I bet you won’t be able to trace that back as you would if you bought it at your veterinarian’s office.

I remember that. When I was in practice, there was a flea and tick product that was only supposed to be sold in veterinary clinics. It wasn’t a prescription, but they were only selling it in veterinary clinics. There were some back-handed ways that an online company was getting a hold of them and selling them, and then finding out that they were making counterfeit. They were getting counterfeit products.

The consumer is out that money. Spend the money, do the research and talk with your veterinarian. Your veterinarian is your trusted source. At Pet Poison Helpline, we want to be that trusted resource in toxicology, but your veterinarian is that first line of defense for you. They’re your advocate. They’re your pet’s advocate. Trust them and utilize them. They’re not there to buy a fancy yacht. They’re there to save your pets and increase the quality of life of your pet, and that bond that you guys have. Do your research and start with your veterinarian first.

Your veterinarian is your first line of defense and your pet’s advocate. Trust and utilize them. Share on X

Dealing With Restless Pets During The Holidays

With the holidays coming, people are traveling. Grandma, grandpa, or the grandkids are coming over with the new baby. On my street in Sanibel last holiday season, the grandbaby came over with the kids, and they had grapes in the backpack for the baby. The yellow Lab got into it, so they were at Blue Pearl Emergency for three days. It’s a reminder.

I don’t mean to generalize, but I’m old, and I had elderly parents. Most people travel with their prescription drugs when they’re traveling in a little Ziploc bag with no expiration date and no name of the drug or how many are in there. They’re coming into your household. You’re safe in your household, but the dogs are going in the guest room, checking that out, and there’s that Ziploc bag. You come home, and it’s all torn up. I think that with what you do, the holiday season has to be busy for you.

You bring up such a great scenario. This is the time of year that our calls are ramping up with, “Guests are over. People were visiting. My dad was staying for a few days. My uncle is here. My cousin is here.” There’s a distraction in the household. The pet is distracted. What dog doesn’t like a new toy, a new shining thing, which might be the suitcase on the floor and everything that’s inside it? Maybe that person who comes to visit isn’t used to having a pet around, or if they are used to having a pet around, maybe they’re used to having a pet that doesn’t get into things, so they don’t think about it.

Thanksgiving and Christmas time, from here until the end of the year, we see an increase in those particular types of calls. I always encourage people, “It sounds silly, but it could be life-saving. Ask your guests, ‘Do you have any medications? Let’s put them in the cabinet in the bathroom. Let’s put them in the cabinet in the kitchen. Let’s get them up and out of the way. You don’t need to tell me your life story and all the medications you are on. Let’s get them up and out of the way so that the pet doesn’t get it.’” You said grapes and raisins. When you brought that up, that’s a great one.

For the kids.

We love grapes. We love raisins. No problems with them. When my kids were younger, we were a raisin-free household. The reason for that was that those little guys would drop them on the floor or lose them, and the dogs would eat. Grapes were easier because you could see them a little bit better. It’s something that we have to keep in mind.

Halloween happened. That little box of raisins is enough to put any-sized dog into kidney failure. We have to be careful about what’s being brought into that home. If you are going to someone else’s home, be that responsible guest and say, “I have medications. Where can I put this? I have supplements. I have vitamins.” Even if they’re regular vitamins, say, “I have this. Where can I put this so it’s not in the way of your pet and so your pet can’t get it?”

I have a sign on my gate, “Keep gate closed. Keep pets inside.” I could see on your door or entrance to your house, “We are a grape and raisin-free zone.”

I love raisins. I have nothing against raisins, but we have little kids and a big dog. That dog was going to be faster than the kids picking something or them even recognizing they dropped something. We just wanted to be on the safe side.

As far as food goes, everyone is going to be cooking a turkey. There’s that turkey grease, fat, and skin. A dear friend of mine, Dr. Kate, in the UK, we got together in Boston at the World Congress meeting. Her husband, who’s not a vet, intentionally but didn’t know better, fed their dog all this fat. It was in the hospital for three days with horrible inflammation of the pancreas, which is pancreatitis. That could have killed that dog. He didn’t know any better.

Think of dogs in the wild. They are eating the liver, the fat, and everything, but dogs in the wild live maybe two years. They don’t live 14 or 15 years as our pets do. The dietary aspects are also part of this. I agree about those supplements. When my mother was alive, she was babysitting one of my dogs, Nellie, a Golden Collie Mix. My mother was eating a peach. She was done with the peach and set it down, and that dog got that peach stone. She had to have an endoscopy. They went in with the little forceps and got it out, but she felt terribly about it. These dogs are quick.

They’re part of our family. They’re attached to us. I’ve told this story to other places before. When my dad came to visit, he brought his medications. His dog was in his lap while he was taking his heart medication. I was like, “Dad, you’ve got to stop. You have to have some separation.” These little dogs that are being held or they’re right at the feet of their pet parents, they’re there, and accidents happen. We fumble. We drop medication, and they scoop in. Depending on the medication, one can be enough.

Sometimes, we’ll do a talk on how one pill can kill. Baclofen is a great one. One pill of Baclofen can be enough to kill a small or medium-sized dog. I always say, “Take your medication in a room where your pet isn’t. Go into the bathroom. Close the door. Keep the pet out. That way, if you drop something, you can pick it up. You have time to find it.”

Everything You Need To Know About Topicals

That is true for small children, too. You keep the pets and the kids out of there while you take your meds. Speaking of which, two things. Speaking of elderly people and visitors. I had a client, an elderly man, who had a toenail fungus, which is unique to humans as opposed to dogs. His Schnauzer slept on his feet every day, and that Schnauzer caught that type of ringworm. Aside from that, let’s talk about topicals. Let’s say someone comes over and they’re on Rogaine.

Minoxidil is an active ingredient on Rogaine. Cats are extremely sensitive to minoxidil. Dogs are sensitive, but not to the degree that cats are. One of the things that can happen is that somebody who maybe has pattern baldness or they’re putting it on their head, and they sleep. It’s not uncommon for a cat to like to sleep at the top of the owner’s head. That can get absorbed with that.

Aside from Rogaine, there’s diclofenac. Some of these pain medication creams contain a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory. Diclofenac has an extremely narrow margin of safety in animals. We can see ulcers developing in the stomach and the gut. We can see kidney failure from that. Estrogen is certainly another one where we can get concerned, as far as that goes. The name is slipping my mind, but it’s the topical chemotherapeutic.

The 5-FU.

I kept wanting to say 5-HTP again because we talked about that. Few animals survive an exposure to 5-FU. We can see these issues where either that pet parent says, “They’ve got this sore. They’ve got this area. I’m going to use this on my skin. I’m going to put that on there and see what happens.” Maybe they’ve applied it to their area that they need and the animal is curled up and rubbed up with them, and then it gets transferred and absorbed to them as well.

I’ve run into two people who put it all over their faces. I’m not sure how often they do it, but it’s almost like a chemical peel in a way. When you think about that, that person lies on a pillow. Your cat or dog lies on that pillow. It’s dangerous.

There are some products that also have that, as well as a Vitamin D3-type product in them. That particular one is even more sensitive because of its concentration and its makeup. It’s even more dangerous than a supplement would be. It’s a double jeopardy.

People think that topicals, for some reason, aren’t as potent or toxic as an oral medication. They leave them lying around.

I’m a medical professional now, so I have access to knowing more things. When I was certainly younger and even newer in my career, I was like, “I’m applying this to the skin. It’s not getting absorbed. It’s just on the skin.” That’s a very common misconception that things don’t get absorbed through the skin. Let’s throw out tea tree oil since we’re on topicals. You can Google anything and get any answer you want. You can keep looking until you find the right answer that you want. Google will encourage you to use tea tree oil to treat fleas, ear mites, hot spots, and all sorts of different things in your pet.

Tea tree oil, especially the concentrated tea tree oil, has a very narrow margin of safety. People will put that onto an area that’s already wounded. We have more blood vessels exposed in that area. They’ll apply tea tree oil, so even more of that gets absorbed. The animal is not able to walk and is having body tremors and other issues developing. We apply it to our skin. It’s something that we can have absorption as well.

Tea tree oil, especially the concentrated ones, has a very narrow margin of safety for your pets. Share on X

It’s scary when you think about it. I remember having a woman who brought her Chihuahua in. I always say the legs on a Chihuahua or Dachshund are vestigial because they’re carried up against them. In one area, the dog developed a patch of hair loss that was getting pigmented black. The dog was a honey color.

The woman was putting her topical estrogen hormone there, holding the dog against her, and the dog was absorbing all the postmenopausal effects, if you will, of the topical hormone. Who thinks that could be “bothersome” or toxic, if you will? It did and absorbed through there. That’s when you have to get HIPAA or PIPAA, as we can say in veterinary medicine, with the owner. You can say, “I need to ask you a question. Are you on any medications?” They say, “I do take topicals.” Bingo. That was it.

We will get calls from pet parents who say their pet is not acting right, and they have twenty different medications in the household. They may have dropped a few, but not sure which ones. We’ll gather that list. You’re right, we don’t share that information. It doesn’t go anywhere, but it’s that HIPAA thing. It’s like, “What medications are you on? What strength are they?” It’s so we can rule out, “This isn’t going to be a problem. This could be, but it isn’t matching the signs that the dog is having.” There’s a lot of mix and matching and puzzle investigation. It’s like playing the game of clue. You go into this area and say, “It couldn’t be this.”

In the old days, when we had Mitaban Dip for dogs with Demodex, we used to have them dip the dog once a week because it has 88% success rate as opposed to every two weeks. I had an elderly gentleman who dipped his dog. Being a former pharmacist, I got into the HIPAA thing and said, “I don’t want you dipping this dog if you’re on heart medications, high blood pressure pills, diabetes, or antidepressants.”

You didn’t dip the dog. You put the dog in the tub and sponged it over them. That owner slept for two days after dipping that dog. I don’t know if he wore gloves or not, but the absorption of that dip through his skin scared the bejeezus out of me. After that, my technician and I went in there and, for fifteen minutes, grilled people and said, “You are going to wear gloves when you do this.” Thankfully, now, we have a much safer way of treating Demodex. It goes to show you how something is like, “It’s a dip. I have to sponge it over the dog.” Another topical, with the meds he was on, could have killed him.

You can throw that in with cleaning products and things like that, too. Being around fumes can be problematic. It’s like, “I’ve got this cleaning product and this cleaning product. They both work, so let’s put them together,” so the fume mixture is much more problematic. Many years ago, at a Buffalo Wild Wings in Massachusetts or Pennsylvania, I don’t remember, it made national news. Unfortunately, there was a worker who had combined two industrial-strength cleaning products. One person died from it. They were overcome by the fumes that developed because of that mixture. When I was younger, I would throw everything in there. Less is good, more is better. Now that I know better, I feel like it’s my responsibility to help educate others to know.

As far as diluting things, a few years ago in Mexico with that resort, members of a family were found dead in the morning because it was sprayed with a pesticide that wasn’t diluted properly.

In Amarillo, Texas, a few years ago, there was a phosphide product. Phosphides are used a lot for molds and rodenticides. There was a product that was sprayed underneath a mobile home, and it was sprayed incorrectly. It was only supposed to be used by licensed pest control officers, but it wasn’t. It was utilized by someone else, and they sprayed it. The rain moisture allowed those fumes to come up. It creates phosphine gas. Several children died in the home, and several others were hospitalized. We think of it as a benign and not problematic type of thing. We don’t think about the potential concerns that go along with it.

Chewable Apoquel For Your Dogs

I have to give you a shout-out because the last time you were on, chewable Prozac had come out. You had already seen some cases, heard of some cases, or spoken with some cases where cats apparently like chewable Prozac that’s made for dogs. They are having a real problem with that, aren’t they?

I think it’s the chewable Apoquel.

I’m sorry. I said Prozac. I apologize. It’s Apoquel. Thank you.

You’re right. Apoquel is great. If your pet is on Apoquel, there is no need to take them off of it. I would never recommend it. It’s been life-saving and life-changing for so many animals. The concern is that when they get into a larger mouth. We got to store those up high. Several of our toxicologists have their pets on Apoquel. In our little road chatter, they talk about how they bought a lock box strictly for Apoquel, and it’s up in a cabinet. They have cats that can open the cabinet doors, so they bought something special. They only have a small number of them out at one time.

It’s not FDA-approved in cats. While cats are smaller, we’re seeing signs at lower doses, regardless of their size. These guys can develop kidney failure. They’re developing liver failure. They’re having significant issues with this. It’s not a good thing that this is happening, but fortunately, because we’re able to consolidate all of this information that we take from all over North America. We were able to develop a much better treatment recommendation because this was a new issue we’re seeing in animals.

Your main focus is the kidneys, then?

Kidneys, liver, and cardiac issues. There is eye ocular issues as well. You name it. We’re seeing neurologic signs. They might be depressed or stumbling. We can see a high heart rate developing. We can see blood pressure changes, kidney failure, liver failure, and eye ocular changes. We’re seeing pressure changes indicating similar to uveitis or glaucoma. We’re seeing a lot of different things.

I’ve been so excited about what we’ve been able to come together to find, recognize, and develop treatments. We were seeing these animals that weren’t surviving. Now, because we’ve been able to develop significant treatment recommendations, these animals are recovering. It’s not easy. It’s a lot on that particular animal, but we’re able to start getting the education out there more and start getting these animals to survive.

It’s so nice that you can collate all that information from all across the country.

It’s been extremely helpful. One clinic may see a case a year or two cases a year. It’s difficult to be able to say, “Now I know what to do or I can recognize this.” We first started seeing issues with Apoquel, that particular medication. There are other medications in that same class that are as problematic, but when we started seeing issues with that, first off, we thought, “This is a one-off. Let’s keep an eye. I don’t think this is related. I think it’s something different.” We saw another and another and said, “This is the same concern.” Our staff, our technicians who talk with the pet parents, and our veterinarians who talk with the clinics are so in tune that when we hear that word, that drug name, or similar drug names. It’s like, “We’ve got to be aggressive here.”

You’ve got to jump on that. I was thinking, when you were saying. Apoquel is a JAK inhibitor for our audience. Now, there are topical JAK inhibitors for humans. That’s got to be scary for you because not only do you have to worry about the chewable Apoquel in cats, you have to worry about the topical that humans could have.

There’s Zenrelia also for veterinary patients or animals. On the human side, I want to say there may be up to 7 or 8 different JAK inhibitors. Some of them we’re still trying to figure out where we are seeing the signs. The dose makes the poison. I say it every time I talk. Only because it’s a toxic issue doesn’t mean that the amount they got into is going to be a concern. Some of these, especially on the human side, we’re not sure yet where we are starting to see it. We might have to be somewhat aggressive at lower doses because there’s so much of that lack of information. They’re not doing animal studies anymore. We can’t go back and look at that.

Why Injecting Ivermectin Is Not Advisable Against Heartworm

Briefly, before we go, we had Dr. Katrina Mealey about her ivermectin MDR1 gene mutation thing. For people who are going to the feed store, buying ivermectin injectable, and giving that to their pets as heartworm preventative, please don’t do that. If they’re supposed to get 0.1 ml, if you even know what that is, and you mismeasure that and give 1 ml. You can kill your pet. I’m curious, how many ivermectin calls do you get? Are they already dead before they call you?

We get a good number of ivermectin calls in spring and summer, especially. Sometimes in the fall. It dies down a little bit more in the wintertime when some people are using it less. It’s heartbreaking because they didn’t intend to have this talk. They thought that they could do this. They thought that it would be more cost-effective and be beneficial. $3,000 or $4,000 later, maybe they get to take their pet home from the hospital.

We do get a good number of calls from the injectable being given orally. We also get them from horse paste. They’re like, “I was deworming my horse, and I figured I’d deworm the dog. He was standing right there, so I gave him a little lick.” Maybe the horse spit some of it out. It’s still active in the manure. We would need to keep these dogs away from the manure for several days and clean up the manure.

They love to eat manure. Dogs love to eat horse poop.

We live out in the country. The farmer’s dog is not eating the vegetables in the garden. It’s like, “What did you find this time? What is out there?”

I rescued a German Shepherd that was hit by a car and left for dead. This is before I was a vet. I named her Katie. When I would walk her, it was like a bulldozer. When I would see horse poop, because people walk their horses here. It was like a scoop. If I didn’t get her away in time, it was a whole mouthful. It’s not meat-based. I don’t know why they even like it.

It’s because they’re dogs.

Discussion Wrap-up And Closing Words

I love talking with you. I learn so much all the time. I can’t thank you enough for all you guys do. Everyone, you have to put Pet Poison Helpline on your phone and on your speed dial, if anyone still has hard lines, as I have in this house, because the reception is so bad. When that pet of yours is not acting right and you find the empty pill bottle or empty Ziploc bag. You’re going to be crazy like we all are. We can’t think when it’s our own. You’ve got to call. It’s the best $89 you’ll ever spend. That’s all I can say.

Thank you for having me, and for helping to spread the word. Many people don’t even know that animal poison centers exist. That’s one piece of it. Go back to your veterinarian. If they’re not available, call us. We never close. We’re available 24/7, every holiday, every time of day.

Their website is wonderful. It can guide you through what to watch for, whether you should call, and what’s going to happen when you call. You’ll learn a lot on the website. Thanks again, Dr. Schmid. Have a wonderful holiday if I don’t talk to you.

You as well. Thank you.

This is Alice Novotny Jeromin signing off. Give your pets a hug for us. Subscribe or like us because we like those likes. Thanks, everyone.

 

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