Infectious Insights: Understanding Pet Vaccinations

Dr. Jeromin and Janet welcome the esteemed Dr. Richard Ford, DVM, MS, Diplomate ACVIM & ACVPM (Hon) a retired Brigadier General (USAF Reserves) and a leading expert in veterinary infectious diseases and vaccine technology. Tune in as Dr. Ford shares his fascinating journey from his early days at The Ohio State University to his impactful career in the Air Force, and his vital work in vaccine development post-9/11. With a wealth of knowledge, he discusses the current landscape of pet vaccinations, vaccine hesitancy, and the importance of keeping our furry friends safe with proper immunizations. The conversation dives deep into various topics, including: – The scientific basis for vaccine recommendations and the importance of core vaccines. – Insights on rabies vaccination laws and the implications of vaccine hesitancy in pet owners. – The evolving technology behind recombinant vaccines and their potential benefits for both humans and pets.

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All footage is owned by SLA Video Productions.

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Listen to the podcast here

Infectious Insights: Understanding Pet Vaccinations – Dr. Richard Ford

Welcome to the show. I’m Dr. Alice Novotny Jeromin, a Board-certified veterinary dermatologist.

I’m Janet Novotny King. I am the doctor’s sister. I am not medically trained in anything. I’m here to provide a pet owner and lover’s perspective. Al, I’m excited. Who do we have on?

Looking Back To Dr. Ford’s Career Journey

I don’t want to gush too much but I’ve been dying to meet in person Dr. Richard Ford. Dr. Ford is, as a veterinarian, my go-to person for vaccines and vaccine technology. Janet, you know the mantra of this show is to provide pet owners with evidence-based, accurate information. That’s exactly what Dr. Ford does for me as a veterinarian about vaccines and vaccine technology. Instead of gushing over his biography, I’m just going to ask Dr. Ford. Dr. Ford, give us a little brief bio on yourself and how you got to be doing what you’re doing. Welcome.

Buckeye in the house.

It is Buckeye’s territory. I am an Ohio State University graduate from veterinary school and I went to Japan in the Air Force. For my first three years, I did small animal and equine in Japan. It’s an interesting job. I came back to the state and practiced for a while, then I applied for a residency at Michigan State in Internal Medicine. I did that and then took faculty positions at Purdue as well as North Carolina State.

I’m a emeritus professor at North Carolina State. I stayed in the military and managed to squeeze in 28 years with the Air Force. I ended up at a high level at the Pentagon as the so-called Mobilization Assistant to the Air Force Surgeon General. It was a very interesting time. Speaking of vaccines, I got my feet wet on anthrax and the anthrax vaccine, which was mandated for the military post-September 11th.

I’ve had an interesting thing. I’ve always had a very strong interest in infectious disease. Alice, I think one of the things that at least I tell veterinarians that is happening in the infectious disease arena is this unprecedented change in the vaccine landscape. The technology for vaccines in both human and veterinary medicine is exploding.

Everybody reading is aware of the novel technology associated with vaccines for the COVID-19 era. That’s just a small segment of what’s going on out there and in the pipeline of what’s coming. There’s a lot going on. It’s going to be quite interesting. These new vaccines, the new technologies for vaccines, bring something to the table for both human and veterinary patients that benefit everybody in terms of safety and long-term immunity. It’s an interesting time to be doing this. That’s where my interest lies.

What Dr. Ford neglected to mention is that he’s a retired Brigadier General with the United States Air Force.

Thank you for your service. I have one burning question. Were you at the Pentagon on 9/11?

I was. I was in a different wing.

The Rise Of Vaccine Hesitancy Over The Last Few Years

Speaking of this being a timely point to talk about vaccines and vaccine technology. I saw in Florida where they did away with mandatory vaccinations. I’m concerned about that. I’m also concerned about the vaccine hesitancy and how that’s going to spill over to pets. Can we talk a little bit about this vaccine hesitancy that’s risen over the last few years?

It’s an interesting phenomenon. Everybody reading is aware of the so-called Anti-Vaxxer Movement. That started in the late 1990s with a physician in England who proclaimed that his assessment of six children was that they were vaccinated with the measles vaccine and the virus in the vaccine ultimately resulted in autism spectrum disorder in those six children.

The point is, none of those children were ever diagnosed with autism. It was all the parents’ assessment. The paper was not a scientific paper. It was a report to the publisher of Lancet, a prestigious medical journal. If you will, pardon the pun, that was the shot heard around the world because people suddenly got the concern. They realized that as more and more physicians were diagnosing autism, here’s a credible item to blame it on. That’s measles vaccine.

Vaccine compliance obviously tanked. I’m sure most of your audience are aware of the measles outbreak that’s ongoing. It started in Texas, in a population there that uniquely doesn’t believe in vaccination. We now have measles in a majority of states. It’s been reported, and tragically, there’s been two deaths. You see the consequences of this.

That was initiated by what’s termed the anti-vaxxer. I personally think anti-vaxxers are a very small group of people. We have them in veterinary medicine as well, but it’s not many. They have a voice and they have been heard. That has led to what is more appropriately termed today vaccine hesitancy. These aren’t parents or pet owners who are standing up and carrying signs outside the post office protesting vaccines.

They’re just people who are genuinely concerned about the risk and the need for administering vaccines. They’re legitimate. That’s one thing I stress with veterinarians, is that people who have these concerns about vaccinating a pet. This is significant. This is not a frivolous concern. They’re genuine, responsible pet owners, and they would like to do the right thing. They’re concerned about what they hear among the anti-vaxxers. That makes them decline that.

I find it intriguing. I was looking at the data on this. We have 68 million dogs in the United States. That’s about 40% of all households that have a dog. For those who are interested, we have 74 million cats. I don’t know who counts those cats. A study that was published in a human vaccine journal, a very prestigious journal on canine vaccine hesitancy, was a well-done survey of dog owners in the United States. They interviewed several thousand people who are dog owners and put together a very sophisticated survey instrument.

It was intriguing to read the outcome of that study. They determined that 37% of the dog owners, of the 38% households in the US are concerned about vaccines being unsafe. I personally think that’s spillover from human medicine and the measles autism concern. Another 30% felt that vaccines weren’t even necessary. I can’t emphasize that enough. Everybody should realize that if a vaccine works very well, what happens?

It eradicates the disease.

Nothing. The perception is that we don’t need it. The bottom line is, if we discontinue getting dogs, cats, and people, as we were seeing, vaccinated against these critical core diseases, then we’re going to have outbreaks. It will occur. There was another 20% or so that say vaccines are ineffective. These are interesting viewpoints from people who own dogs. They’re not anti-vaxxers. They’re only concerned about the need to do that.

A lot of the concern I have for that, as the authors pointed out in that study. Half of the thousands of people they interviewed are concerned about one of those three things. Safety, ineffectiveness, or need. It’s a pretty significant impact. For what it’s worth, I did have an opportunity to speak with some of the industry leaders on this issue. In fact, from an industry standpoint, from the companies that make vaccines, they’re seeing a decreased demand for vaccines in the US market across the board, all companies.

They feel that that is a reflective issue regarding vaccine hesitancy in the dog owners’ minds. I’m sure that’s true of cat owners as well. Alice, one of the intriguing things to me, this is close to my heart, is the number one vaccine that people express being hesitant about was the one that’s most effective and most necessary. That’s rabies. Of all the vaccines, it’s remarkable to see that kind of thing. That’s the way it is now. The point is, I’m trying to encourage veterinarians in the continuing education arena that I’m involved in. Educate them on being aware of these concerns and how to address them and not be frivolous about it. That’s where we’re going. It’s a significant issue.

It’s interesting you said that, Dr. Ford. When I was looking on Facebook, there were some people from Florida saying, “Thank God. We don’t have to get vaccines anymore.” They gave some value that only 20% are exposed to rabies. I’m thinking, “Where did you get that figure?” It was Joe Blow talking on Facebook. I thought, “If there’s ever a disease you don’t want to mess with, it’s rabies.”

As a pet owner, I’m concerned about the dogs I meet on the street or wildlife. I don’t know if that pet’s been vaccinated.

You don’t. There’s a significant number of animals roaming around out there, particularly cats that are not vaccinated. A couple of points that I think might be interesting to those reading. The Centers for Disease Control does rabies surveillance annually in the United States on a State-by-State basis. This is hardcore surveillance of rabies in a number of species, including dogs and cats.

What’s relevant is that every year in the United States for the past several years, there’s always been about 60 to 70 dogs confirmed to have rabies. About 240 to 280 cats confirmed to have rabies. This is not significant. What this means, least in my mind’s eye, is that the reason veterinarians or veterinary medicine proposes all pets be vaccinated for rabies is that this is to protect the pet. The primary focus is to protect the public. This is truly a public health initiative and it works.

Veterinary medicine proposes that all pets be vaccinated for rabies to protect the pet and the public as well. Share on X

The United States and Canada are regarded as rabies-free countries. There are 115 countries out there in which they are deemed high risk for rabies. It is the dog that we are very concerned about the increasing pressure of rabid dogs globally imported into the United States. Considering the fact that we import somewhere around that they know of a million dogs a year into the US. Some of them are fraudulently entering the US from countries that are high-risk for rabies.

We have had this so-called canine variant, the rabies virus, enter the US. This is the target we’re trying to keep out. That’s why we vaccinate for rabies. Alice, you and I had this conversation before. Rabies isn’t required in all states. It’s not state law. In fact, only 39 states require dogs to be vaccinated for rabies. Thirty-four states require cats to be vaccinated for rabies. I’ve been involved with writing vaccine recommendations for the profession for many years now.

We recommend, regardless of state law, all dogs and all cats be vaccinated against rabies. It is clearly the quintessential core vaccine that the general public needs to be aware of. We do see that. I would mention also, I’ve been looking at these statistics. It is the cat that is the number one reason that people undergo post-exposure prophylaxis in the United States. That’s the rabies shots. There’s a series of four of them and some people five. It’s not a pleasant experience. It is quite expensive if you don’t have insurance. Tens of thousands of dollars.

People are getting rabies from cats?

Yes, like a cat bite.

Do you know why? If you’ve ever taken my cats to the vet, its hell getting them to the vet. I’m just saying. It’s not like a dog you put the leash on. It’s hard.

It’s exactly the reason compliance with the rabies vaccine in cats is so low. It’s getting them in the car and getting them to the vet to be vaccinated. That’s why we have a lot more rabies in cats.

The Impact Of Titers In Vaccines

I had no idea about that figure. Dr. Ford, what about the people whom I’ve also heard say this, “I want to do titers on my pet. It’s not good to over vaccinate.” Can you address that? There’s a couple of points in there.

It is. It’s not a frivolous question. As I explained to veterinarians, there are inexpensive and reasonably priced test kits available for doing titers. To explain it, a titer is the concentration of antibody in the blood that follows vaccination or infection. We use the antibody concentration or the titer as a measure of protective immunity. What’s important, and I stress this with veterinarians. That doesn’t apply to all of the diseases we vaccinate against. It only applies to certain ones. Let me give you a real good example.

There are three certificated laboratories in the United States authorized to do rabies antibody titers in dogs and cats. The bottom line is that it is only legal for exportation purposes. In other words, a rabies antibody titer is not a legal index of immunity in any state in the United States. It’s important to realize that. For parvovirus, distemper virus, and adenovirus or hepatitis, and panleukopenia for cats, which is the feline variety of parvovirus, titers correlate exceptionally well with immunity.

For someone who has been through that juvenile series, the young dog, young cat, initial series, and then gotten a booster one year later. These are the most critical vaccines in the life of a cat or a dog. The juvenile series, usually three of them are generally around 2 months, 3 months, and 4 months, and then a booster a year later. Every dog and every cat should get these core vaccines administered according to that schedule.

It’s the booster beyond that. We recommend dogs and cats be boosted against these so-called core vaccines every three years. We should probably explain that. We know the vaccines, at least in many dogs and cats, last longer than 3 years, 5 years, or 6 years, and many. It is reasonable to ask for the owner of a dog or cat that’s about to be vaccinated or recommended to be vaccinated to request an antibody titer. There is a good correlate between the level of antibody and protection. It is a reasonable test to do, but only for select diseases. Most of the diseases we vaccinate against, the titer is not a correlate of immunity. It doesn’t apply across the board.

It is highly recommended that dogs and cats be boosted against these so-called vaccines every three years. Share on X

What To Do When Bit By A Stray Animal

Say Janet, who’s not a veterinarian and she encounter a stray dog. She gets bit and we don’t know the rabies status. That’s big trouble, isn’t it?

Do you mean the rabies vaccination status? Yes. I have reviewed these. I’ve looked at the law on dog and cat bites to humans in every state. The requirement is interesting. I would venture a guess to say that a lot of veterinarians aren’t aware of these laws. This is statutory. This is in rabies law in every state. It is a ten-day confinement if a dog or a cat bites a human, regardless of their vaccination status.

To put that on the table, the State doesn’t care whether or not a dog or a cat has ever been vaccinated. That’s not relevant if a dog or a cat bites a person. It is a ten-day quarantine. The reason for that quarantine is very solidly based in biology. The reason is that dogs and cats that do have rabies only shed virus in the last few days before the onset of clinical signs, usually neurologic signs. Given the fact that the incubation period for rabies virus in a dog and a cat is two months on the average, waiting ten days is reasonable.

If the dog or cat is healthy appearing at the end of a ten-day confinement, they were not shedding virus at the time they bit the individual. The whole purpose behind that ten-day confinement thing is to determine whether or not the person bitten needs to go through the post-exposure prophylaxis. That works. It is interesting. If you’ve ever seen a rabid dog or cat they are dramatic. I’ve seen a few. They don’t shed virus until just before the onset of clinical signs.

I’ll use Janet as the example, because Dr. Ford and I have had rabies vaccinations. We have titers that are checked. Say this dog bites her and runs off. We can’t catch the dog.

That’s a real-life scenario. The point is that if a person is bitten and the dog takes off, it’s a stray dog or even a wild animal like a fox or a raccoon or bats. It’s a big issue in the US. The bottom line is it’s beholden to the person that’s bitten to report that. If it’s a bad enough bite, this person’s going to go to the emergency department. That visit triggers public health.

Public health wants to know the circumstances surrounding the bite. I’ve been on these committees. There’s a rabies control panel. It’s usually a pediatrician if children are involved, physician, internist, and maybe a veterinarian in which you meet. You discuss the circumstances, and you decide whether or not that person needs it.

The big issue, Janet, is was the bite provoked or not? An eight-year-old kid riding his bike down the road and a dog runs out. Bites the kid in the ankle and takes off. The kid’s got a hole in his ankle and goes to the emergency department. They don’t know who the dog belongs to. That was very likely a provoked bite. If you’re on the golf course and some stray dog walks up, bites you, and then wanders off. I’d be a little concerned about that one.

I know there’s a 1-year and a 3-year rabies. Are they the same and it’s just different labeling? Is the immunity for the three-year lasts longer than the one-year?

The question comes up all the time in my lectures to veterinarians. There is an assumption that the one-year and three-year canine vaccines, which are also licensed for the cat, are exactly the same vaccine. That is not exactly true. There are constituents in the three-year vaccine that allow it to last longer. They probably have more of this so-called adjuvant in the vaccine than the one-year.

My point is that it is the labeling that drives the law. Veterinarians and owners are obligated to comply. This is where it gets a little legal versus immunologic. A one-year vaccine for rabies is only good for one year. It’s not good for one year and one day. A three-year vaccine is good for three years. It’s not good for three years and one day. That’s not true immunologically but it is the law. One day after that three-year period is up, that dog is no longer considered to be currently vaccinated in the State. It’s a big deal in 39 states where there is a law.

Why Your Pet Should Not Get Several Shots At Once

We have a golden, a rescue. Remember, she got vaccinated for rabies and something else, and you said, “Don’t do them all at once.”

She also needed her Lepto booster.

She was getting Lepto for the first time.

Sorry, I thought it was a booster.

She was getting rabies, Lepto, and Lyme, I think. You said, “Don’t do it all at once.”

Dr. Ford, what’s your opinion on that? Was it okay for her to get all three at once?

You guys are asking hard questions.

As you can see, he didn’t complain.

Let me say this. A young dog and young cat derive immunity from mom during nursing. They acquire most of mom’s immunity within 24 hours if they nurse and they nurse appropriately. It’s interesting that immunity wanes over about 12 to 16 weeks, then we start giving boosters at that point. This is where I think people get concerned about boosters and reactions. It’s fair to say that when we’re administering vaccines, we do recommend what are called core vaccines. These are vaccines that every dog and every cat in every practice should get.

To recant that for your audience, distemper parvo, hepatitis, rabies, and more recently, Lepto has been added to the core vaccine list. In addition to that, for the cat, we’ve added herpes virus, calici. These are respiratory infections in cats, very contagious, and panleukopenia, which is the parvovirus of cats. There’s also rabies, which we strongly recommend in cats. There’s one other, and that’s feline leukemia virus. Those are the core vaccines. There are several other non-core vaccines. By that, I mean like influenza virus vaccines. Lyme vaccine is determined based on risk or geography and things like that.

The issue comes up with regard to adverse reactions when you’re giving a lot of vaccines to a dog, or particularly a small dog at the same appointment. Janet, I don’t know how big your dog was when it got all those vaccines recommended, but you’re in Connecticut. As a result, you’re in an endemic high-risk area, as you know, for Lyme disease.

They’re going to recommend Lepto and Lyme in addition to all the core vaccines. The issue is with regard to reactions to vaccines, which are real. They do happen. It is the small dog that experiences the greatest risk. There’s a definition of a small dog. That is a dog under 20 pounds of body weight at time the vaccine is administered. I want to cite a couple of studies, though, to put this in perspective.

Vaccines in human medicine and veterinary medicine are deemed to be safe and effective. You’ve all heard that. Everybody hears that. You hear on the news or on ads all the time. By virtue of a vaccine, being safe does not define it as free of side effects. There are reactions to vaccines. I’ve got two studies, two in the cat and two in the dog, that looked at 500,000 cats and almost six million dogs and documented the reactions.

The rate of reactions in dogs in the United States and Canada is right around one-half of 1% in both the dog and the cat when you look at the statistics. It’s rare. They do occur and they do in people as well. The risk of a reaction is so low, the emphasis is on, “Gee, don’t miss the vaccine.” If the dog gets parvo, it’s going to cost you a whole lot of money to treat that dog and it may not survive. The point is, we do emphasize with small dogs. In your case, Janet, if your dog is a 6-to-8-pound dog. I would advocate we do this in the guidelines. Vaccinating these dogs, given the core vaccines with three doses for 2 months, 3 months, 4 months, and a booster a year later. Somewhere after those initial three doses, add Lyme.

Minimize the volume of vaccine that’s going into these dogs at the same time. It’s a pretty significant issue in the small dog that gets a lot of vaccines at the same appointment. We see a significant decrease in the incidence of reactions in big dogs. You take a 45-pound, 50-pound, or 60-pound dog getting all those vaccines, it’s not a problem. I would advocate stretching those out for small dogs.

Libby is a svelte 78-pound golden.

Administering Vaccine Shots Depending On Pet Size

Dr. Ford, when I was in general practice, clients brought in their dogs would say to me, “Do you mean you’re going to give this same dose of vaccine to my 15-pound poodle that you’re giving to this 70-pound golden retriever?” I know of some vets that would give half of that dose and that’s wrong. Am I correct?

I have to say as a layman, it doesn’t make sense to me. That you give more.

It’s not a drug. Vaccines are biological agents. Let me put it in perspective. You vaccinate a cat and a dog with the same volume of vaccine, basically. The volume is arbitrary because they can reduce the volume. It’s the dose we’re concerned about. We know that in a dog and a cat, one milliliter of a vaccine is pretty conventional. If you’re vaccinating a horse against rabies, for example, you use the dog vaccine. You use two milliliters in a horse.

Vaccine is not a drug but biological agents. Share on X

For those of you who are interested, when you’re vaccinating your pet elephant, you have to give four doses, four ccs of rabies to immunize your elephant. You see, it is different. It’s based on the fact that these are viral antigens that provoke the immune system. It’s not like a drug. You’re trying to reach a blood concentration. It does work quite differently. There’s no issue. We could give dogs and cats much higher concentrations if we needed to, but we don’t.

In the study that you had mentioned about the small percentage of adverse effects. Were those effects denoted by the veterinarian or by the pet owner?

That’s a good question. These were all documented as adverse reactions by the clinician who administered the vaccine. The client would bring it up. It was the veterinarian who entered the report. There’s going to be some variation. When you have numbers like six million dogs, that’s huge. It’s pretty consistently a very low reaction rate.

You might be interested to know that it’s not only the small dog that is at greater risk for reaction. It’s which breeds. They have data on that. There are two top breeds. One is the French Bulldog and the other is the Dachshund. Pugs, Min Pins, and the little guys are the targets for reactions if they’re going to occur. That’s why I would advocate veterinarians might want to give Lepto and Lyme disease, in Janet’s case, separately from the distemper and parvo.

Hopes For A Human Lyme Vaccine

Is there any hope for a human Lyme vaccine?

The drug company Pfizer is coordinating with a company called Valneva. They are in, as I understand it, clinical stage three or phase three of a human Lyme disease. Ironically, its construction is remarkably similar to one of the canine Lyme vaccines on the market in the United States.

I can tell you. Living in Connecticut, it’s the norm here. You have your pet vaccinated. You give them the oral medicine, the Lyme stuff, but you also have your yard sprayed. Ours is sprayed with a pet safe. It’s called a cedar spray like a cedar oil, which is safe for pets. Our lawn guy will say, “Keep her in for two hours.” They spray it. I think it’s done every 2 weeks or every 3 weeks. It’s quite frequent. I don’t know if it cuts down on them or not.

I lectured in Lyme in Connecticut. I’ve lectured to a whole bunch of veterinarians up there. It was just fascinating to drive around Lyme and old Lyme and look at the terrain. It’s crawling with ticks. It’s a high-risk environment. What’s interesting is that Lyme disease risk for humans and dogs is spreading. The primary reason it’s spreading out of New England, South and out of the Upper Midwest, moving South, and States like Kentucky, Tennessee, that have never had Lyme disease before are now starting to see significant cases of Lyme disease. I was in Arkansas and veterinarians there are telling me, “We’re starting to see Lyme disease.”

It’s so bad. Martha’s Vineyard had 1,500 cases. I believe this is correct. Five hundred of those got alpha-gal. There’s a whole rise in veganism on Martha’s Vineyard because of alpha-gal syndrome. It’s very bushy, rural, and underdeveloped.

Lyme disease is the number one vector-borne disease in humans in the United States. It’s fair to say it’s true.

Why The Timing For Leptospirosis Booster Is Crucial

I learned from the last webinar you did that I listened to for veterinarians. I did not know how crucial for leptospirosis the timing of that booster had to be. Could you talk about that?

That’s a good point that you bring up, Alice. Lepto has been a real thorn in the backside of veterinarians and dog owners for a long time because of the high rate of reactions to the vaccine. The vaccine in the day was protective against two of what we believe are about 9 or 10 so-called serogroups in the United States. There’s a whole bunch of different Leptos out there.

In 2020 or 2021, the industry that makes vaccines added two more serogroups to that vaccine. Lepto vaccines administered to a dog at present are no longer the two-way. They are so-called four-way. It’s four separate vaccines. What happened was interesting. The industry knew that if they packed in two more serogroups into a single vaccine, you now have a four-way thing and made it the same way they did the two-way vaccines. The reaction rates would be off the wall. Out of the park.

What they have done and it’s my understanding all the companies have done this. They have had to filter these extraneous proteins. These are called excipients out of the product. What we’ve heard since 2023 is that the four-way Lepto vaccines are much less reactive than the old two-way. We’ve got better vaccines that are less reactive. That’s why we’re a little more encouraged to promote leptospirosis vaccination as a core vaccine.

Libby’s had the two Leptos. In one year after that second, she has to have the booster, correct?

If she gets the four-way for the first time, she’s got to get another one. It takes two.

I wait a year.

You need two within 2 to 6 weeks initially.

I did that.

If you’ve done that, you’ve got a good 12 to 15 months protection. I tell you, it is important for anybody who’s doing that. With all of the Lepto vaccines, two doses are essential initially. You’ve got to have two. You’ve got to have them within 2 to 6 weeks apart. If you wait 2 months or 8 weeks, you probably are going to have to start over again. That should be an incentive to get it done. The same thing’s true on the booster. Somebody who waits two years to get a booster has lost the immunity and needs to start over. These are bacterial vaccines. They’re not viral vaccines. They just don’t last as long.

Somebody who waits two years to get a booster has lost the immunity and needs to start over. Share on X

Do they not have an adjuvant in them or the adjuvant doesn’t take you out?

Some do and some don’t. It depends on the company. One company does not have an adjuvant and three do.

What does an adjuvant do?

An adjuvant is a chemical. When you’re injecting a vaccine like Lepto or even influenza, the bacteria or the virus is dead. It is a so-called killed vaccine. Killed viruses and bacteria are lousy vaccines because where you inject them, they sit there. It’s up to the immune system to find the virus or the bacteria to process it to make the antibody. It’s because they’re so lousy, they add a chemical that’s called the adjuvant.

It’s usually aluminum, but there are others. There are about 200 of them. It’s a proprietary thing. That’s secret in the soup, I say. The bottom line is the adjuvant creates inflammation at the injection site. That’s why these killed vaccines may hurt. That inflammation signals the immune cells to, “There’s something going on over here. Let’s go investigate.” They find Lepto, antigen, and the vaccine and they process that. That’s been the case of adjuvants in humans and veterinary vaccines for years. Adjuvants were discovered in the horse.

Patient may have tenderness or whatever at the site. When they know plain well it’s going to hurt like hell. It says, “May cause” and you come home, and you’re like, “I had that tetanus shot. I’m dying.”

All along we knew.

You want to hang your arm up. It’s largely the adjuvant. Another thing happens when a vaccine is administered, it’s interesting. When the lymphocytes begin to process that antigen, these signal cells that express proteins which are called cytokines. These are the proteins that turn the immune response on. That’s what makes you ache all over. “My joints ache. My knees hurt.” That’s injection site reactions. Dog, cat, horse, and human are generally linked to the adjuvant. The systemic, “I don’t feel so hot after my COVID booster,” is probably the cytokine response.

How The Landscape Is Being Changed By Recombinant Vaccines

I have a question about recombinant vaccines.

What does that mean?

That’s why I want Dr. Ford to mention what that is. Am I correct in saying a recombinant vaccine doesn’t have an adjuvant?

That is correct.

We’re talking mostly about cats that used to have a reaction. Can you talk about that recombinant?

It’s interesting you bring that up because, as I mentioned at the get-go, we’re seeing this unprecedented change in the vaccine landscape in human and veterinary medicine. That change is in the technology. It is largely centered around recombinants. Another word for that is genetically-engineered vaccines. There’s a big difference. When you’re using a conventional Lepto vaccine, or a distemper or parvo vaccine, you’re injecting the virus or the bacteria in an altered form. It doesn’t cause the disease you’re trying to prevent.

There’s a lot of baggage that comes with injecting dogs, cats, horses, and humans with whole viruses and bacteria. We talked about the reactions, Janet, that you can get with all that stuff, the excipient and killed vaccines. What distinguishes recombinative vaccines from all the others is that you’re not injecting virus or bacteria. You’re injecting usually a piece of DNA. In some cases, pieces of RNA. You’re injecting a very targeted gene that expresses the protein after injection. It’s a fascinating thing in that it creates long-lived immunity. It does it without an adjuvant. It’s very consistent. It’s a very reliable vaccine compared to the conventional manufacturing process for killed or modified live.

Recombinant vaccines create long-lived immunity. They are more reliable than the conventional manufacturing process for killed or modified live. Share on X

We see these advantages in that. It also enables us to immunize against more diseases. We will see this coming. The other side of that recombinant technology thing includes vaccines that treat. We think of vaccines as preventing disease. There are vaccines already licensed that are pure naked DNA injected into muscle that produce a protein after the injection. That protein makes an antibody and that antibody targets a metabolic pathway in cancer. We’re treating cancer. The one on the market for dogs is the melanoma vaccine.

It’s going to be fascinating. Some of the younger veterinarians out there are going to see this therapeutic vaccine arena evolve. They’re going to be treating a variety of cancers with vaccines. They’ll be treating Demodex, which you could probably relate to. Think about modifying the immune response to disease, not just an infection, but a disease, even an ectoparasite, and doing that with a vaccine. This is where the technology is leading. It’s fascinating when you peel the onion back and you look into the pipeline, so to speak, of what’s out there and what’s coming.

Are there disadvantages to recombinant vaccines? To me, it seems the way to go.

It’s new technology. We all know that people are concerned about the COVID vaccine. As these new technologies are introduced, there will be unexpected occurrences that just come with the territory. There are recombinant vaccines for the dog and for the cat that have been on the market for over ten years. They have an exceptional track record. Some of the new recombinant vaccines, we don’t know that much about them because they are truly a novel technology. There’s a learning curve with any of these as there was with the COVID-19 vaccines. They were made in a year, Alice.

What’s your opinion on that, Dr. Ford? I’m just curious about that. The fact that they did come out so fast with that.

It shocked everybody but we were facing a global pandemic. This is a huge outbreak. A lot of people are at risk and the vaccine did save lives. There’s no question about it. There are a lot of people and I know some that had pretty severe reactions to that vaccine. It can occur, but this is part of the learning curve. You don’t know until you vaccinate about ten million people what the reaction ratio would be like.

Remember, we get up at midnight to get on to get one. My whole household, all four of us are up at midnight and be like, “Did you get in?” To make the appointment. We’re all nuts.

Couldn’t wait to get your vaccine. I’m trying to think. I looked at the numbers on that. Globally, there are 40 COVID-19 vaccines on the market. Every time that virus changes its RNA a little bit, it mutates, which they do when they replicate. That’s what they do. They make a new vaccine. The recombinant technology allows them. We don’t have to redevelop a whole new vaccine. We tweak the genetic code in the vaccine so we can change it quickly. That’s why you see so many new variants and variant vaccines that are available for COVID. We’re starting to see that in veterinary medicine. They’ll take a platform, a gene platform, and they’ll modify it depending on the disease. It’s tricky stuff.

People would say, “I’ve had three. How many have you had?” You’ve got to ask that question.

I think the question is, “You’ve had three. Which variant? Is there protection?” We don’t know that.

In New York City, we had a whole app. To go into museums or public places, you had to show on that app that you had the vaccines at the door. It was a whole app you had to download. That’s crazy. Alice, we’ve got to wrap it up. We’ve been on with Dr. Ford.

Before we go, Dr. Ford, do you have any pets?

Not anymore. I lost my cat and I lost my dog years ago.

You sound like you travel a lot, too, though.

I travel too much. I do a lot of consulting and continuing education for veterinarians around the country and outside the country as well. It’s a big deal and it doesn’t lend itself. I don’t feel good about having a pet if I’m not here.

Do you run into Dr. Breitschwerdt very often? He guested it on the show, too.

I know. Ed and I started at North Carolina State at the same time. We’ve known each other and family for years.

Have you been to his farm?

I don’t see him much anymore. We’re on a program together coming up here pretty soon. I can’t remember which one it is, but we’re lecturing.

That’d be something with ticks.

I’m always like, “I feel something. Is this a tick?”

You pick a couple of your friends and you’ll be scratching.

Did you live in Colorado Springs on the base?

I didn’t. I’ve been there. I worked at the Air Force Academy Hospital for a while. I have not been assigned there other than a short-term experience.

My husband did because his dad was a doctor in the Air Force. He lived on the base when he was a little kid with metal beds.

Dr. Ford’s Biggest Pet Peeve

Janet, you’ve got to ask Dr. Ford our question.

Dr. Ford, our guest question is, what is your pet or human peeve? It could be about humans or pets. Mine are ticks. They are my pet peeve.

It could be something like people that don’t use turn signals.

For me, I don’t know. You might not be able to even relate to this. Since childhood, I have been insomniac. I think the pet peeve I have is a cold nose on my neck early in the morning.

I’m not going there.

It’s usually an animal. I won’t say it’s always an animal.

I’ve got two right here. I don’t know if you guys could see it. I have to pet them the whole time.

This one’s been bored. You can’t even see. She’s sleeping.

They’re a captive audience. I have to pet them or they’ll do stuff.

Discussion Wrap-up And Closing Words

I just learned so much, Dr. Ford, every time you speak. This has been a real pleasure and an honor for me. We have to thank Dr. Jerry Harris or should I blame Dr. Harris for giving your email?

You can blame him. I enjoyed talking with all of you about this. This is an important topic. I hope the readers got a little bit of information out of that.

Janet, let’s close it out. This is Dr. Alice Navatney Jeromin from Cleveland, Ohio.

This is Janet Novotny King from Euclid, Ohio, saying thanks for reading. We appreciate you and share with your friends.

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Dr. Richard Ford

Dr. Richard Ford, rabies expert, internal medicine vet, brigadier general!

Email: rbford@ncsu.edu

Pic and bio: Graduate of Ohio State University, practiced small animal and equine medicine prior to completing the internal medicine residency at Michigan State University. He taught internal medicine at Purdue University and North Carolina State University.

He is Board Certified by the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine and is an honorary Diplomate in the American College of Veterinary Preventive Medicine, The Lead Editor of the AAHA Canine Vaccine Guidelines and a co-author on the AAFP Feline Vaccine Guidelines.

Outside of veterinary medicine, Dr. Ford spent 28 years with the US Air Force as a Biomedical Scientist. He retired from the USAF Reserve as a Brigadier General, where he was assigned to the Office of the Air Force Surgeon General at the Pentagon.

Tagged Core Vaccines, Cytokine Response, Public Health, Rabies Vaccination, Recombinant Vaccines, Veterinary Medicines

Infectious Insights: Understanding Pet Vaccinations | SOP Ep. 79 – Dr. Richard Ford