Integrative Pet Care: Acupuncture, Laser Therapy, & Herbal Medicine | SOP Ep.103 – Dr. Neal Sivula

Speaking of Pets | Dr. Neal Sivula | Integrative Pet Care

 

Tired of feeling like there’s no hope left for your aging or ailing pet? In this episode of Speaking of Pets, we dive deep into the world of Integrative Veterinary Medicine with expert Dr. Neal Sivula. From the basics of pet acupuncture (and why cats might prefer laser!) to the truth about herbal medicine sourcing, Dr. Sivula shares science-backed insights and heartwarming stories of turning “last resort” patients around. Discover why integrative care isn’t just a trend, but a multifaceted approach to giving your beloved pet the best quality of life—even when the diagnosis feels final. If you’ve ever wondered about dry needling vs. acupuncture, the power of therapeutic touch, or how a simple laser can make a difference at home, tune in for essential advice from a Veterinary Chiropractic Hall of Famer.

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Integrative Pet Care: Acupuncture, Laser Therapy, & Herbal Medicine

Introduction To Integrative Veterinary Medicine & Credentials

This episode is all about integrative medicine, acupuncture, herbal medicine, water therapy. You name it. We have our go-to integrative person, Dr. Neal Sivula, an OSU graduate. Not Oklahoma, but Ohio State University. Also, besides having his veterinary medicine degree, he has a PhD. I’m not going to list all of his accoutrements. I will tell you that he was inducted into the Animal Chiropractor Hall of Fame in 2023 and received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Academy of Veterinary Acupuncture in 2024.

We got the right guy, Janet. We got the right guy to talk about acupuncture. Not only is Dr. Sivula an integrative veterinarian, but we’re also neighbors. We’re diagonally across each other. We put up with the same stuff you have to put up with at Chamber of Commerce meetings in small towns. Welcome, Neal. It’s great to have you with us.

Thank you. It’s great to be here.

I’m a huge believer in alternative medicine because everybody heard this a hundred times. I had Lyme and Bartonella and suffered for about five years. If it weren’t for alternative medicines, I don’t know where I would be.

If it weren’t for a veterinarian, of which she’s related to, and a chiropractor.

I went to five MDs. My internist did diagnose me.

 

Speaking of Pets | Dr. Neal Sivula | Integrative Pet Care

 

What Is Acupuncture & How It Works

After we told him. I’m going to start because I want to get down to some of the basics. Janet, we get a lot of questions about acupuncture. Neal, what is acupuncture?

We could say simply that it’s stimulation of points on the body, whether it’s with a needle or through other methods that we can discuss to have the body respond and help us treat any medical condition.

Is it more nerve stimulation or lymphatic or blood flow or all of the above?

I’m going to ask. What do those needles do?

We could get to that. To answer your question, Alice. It’s all of the above. The more we know about the science, the more we expand what we think about or what we know about what happens when we stimulate those points.

I’ve been reading in Nature Magazine about how tumors have a neuro component. Example, the vagus nerve and same with autoimmune disease. They’re doing vagus nerve and stimulation for rheumatoid arthritis. It’s fascinating. It is. I think you’re right. I hate to use the word one health holistic but it seems like diseases are that. It doesn’t just involve blood flow. It involves every body mechanism.

You bet.

As a pet owner, say, I think Libby, my Golden, needs acupuncture. How do I find you? Do I go to my regular vet?

That is a great question. Unfortunately, there’s not a clear-cut answer because there’s a number of training programs in the US. They all have their own roll of graduates. We have a few national holistic associations. Alice mentioned the one acupuncture group, the American Academy of Veterinary Acupuncture. That’s a subsidiary of our international group. That’s the group that I did my training through.

Another person may have done the Chi Institute in Florida. They have their own website and their own roll of graduates. Normally, when a client would ask, if they have a relative out of town, if they’re going to be in Florida for the winter by chance. We will send them up to about three or four different websites. Different training groups and holistic associations in case we can catch someone who’s a member in one place but not another and try to give some broad coverage. I wish we had a better system but we don’t.

You go on our Durham website and you click on Find a Dermatologist. I’m sure it’ll evolve into that for you.

I hope so. You may or may not be aware that we’re trying again to have acupuncture recognized as a board specialty. If that does go through, then we will have at some stage diplomats. We’ll have a locator that way but that won’t encompass all the veterinarians that do acupuncture. Only a certain fraction of veterinarians that do acupuncture will try to become board specialists.

I bring my pet in for treatment. Depending on their diagnosis, am I coming to you for treatments for a long period of time? I’m sure it depends on the diagnosis, but am I bringing my pet for a lifetime to you? Is it a certain number of sessions? How do you know when to start and when to stop?

It probably depends on the disease you’re treating.

It very much does. You guys know from our previous conversation that most of our patients are geriatric. They’re in for the long haul. Janet, to your question, it would depend. Say a dog that has a vestibular problem, an acute neurologic problem. We may only see them a number of times and then they’re done. Maybe we see a young dog that’s had an accident or an injury. We treat them for a while and then we see them when they’re older.

Acupuncture Methods (Needles, Laser, Electrical, Injections)

I was reading there are different types. There’s a laser stimulating. Go over those, Neal. I was not aware until I looked that up.

The tradition is to use an acupuncture needle with very tiny needles that are put into the acupuncture point. That’s what everyone thinks of when they think of acupuncture. You mentioned laser. I do most of my acupuncture with a laser. It’s pain-free for the pet. It makes everything a lot smoother. We can use our fingers’ acupressure.

I do most of my acupuncture with a laser, so it’s pain-free for the pet and makes everything much smoother. Share on X

There’s a device in Chinese medicine called a station, which is like a bulb. It’s a very delicate instrument, smaller than a ballpoint pen but has a bit of a blunt. Nothing that would cause pain but a small tip on it that you can use to stimulate the point. We can use injection. Some Docs will inject B12 or saline into the acupuncture point. We’ve got a lot of options. We can use electrical stimulation on the needles. That can provide a different effect as well.

Whenever I think about acupuncture, I think about, “How do you do it on a cat?” Cats hate coming to the vet. Although when I would skin test a cat, people are like, “You’re not going to.” We never anesthetize a cat. They’re more afraid of the clippers, of shaving a little hair than they were of me doing intradermal skin tests. Is that same for you with cats?

Let’s face it, cats has to be on their own terms.

You got it.

You make house calls for cats, Neal?

I should because it would be a lot easier. Some cats are very receptive. They don’t mind the needles like your experience with testing. I use the laser a lot because I use a lot of points down on the feet. Nobody appreciates a needle there.

Dry Needling Vs. Acupuncture

That’s true. They just don’t like coming out of the house. How about needling? How is needling different from acupuncture?

Dry needling in people? It’s a theoretical difference. In people, it’s a training difference as well. A licensed acupuncturist for people is trained for 3 to 4 years. Some have doctorates in Oriental Medicine. To be a licensed acupuncturist, you’ve got a multi-year degree. Where someone who’s trained to dry needle may only be trained for a number of hours, unfortunately.

 Did you hear about that football player, Neal? He got a pneumothorax. Those needles shouldn’t be going in that deep.

What’s a pneumothorax? Something in the throat?

He couldn’t breathe because he punctured his lung.

Air got introduced into the chest. There’s the difference. You’ve got someone whose training maybe didn’t include enough of the safety aspects. Janet, to your question, dry needling is putting the acupuncture needle into a painful point, what we would call a trigger point. When your therapist, massage therapist, chiropractor, or physical therapist, finds this painful point in a muscle, that’s where the needle is going.

Dry needling involves inserting an acupuncture needle into a painful point—what we call a trigger point. With acupuncture, the needle may sometimes go in that same area, but acupuncture points are based on specific anatomical locations—not solely on… Share on X

As opposed to acupuncture, where it might go in that spot. Our acupuncture points are based on location. Not always on discomfort on palpation. The application for dry needling is a lot smaller than acupuncture, which has a broad application for health.

Where do you see the best success rate? In what disease?

It’s like dermatology. The shorter course of the disease, the more rapid onset, the faster we can turn it around. I use the vestibular disease as the example. A strain or a sprain can be easy to turn around. You have the fourteen-year-old golden who comes in, who’s had arthritis for a year or two years. Unfortunately, for us, as we talked last time, those dogs are sometimes coming to us when they’ve tried everything else.

We have to try to turn them around. That’s where it takes a lot of good communication between us and the pet guardian to know what they’re in for. Going into those sessions, we provide some expectation. If we’re not getting a response in this many sessions, then we ought to think about doing something different.

It’s hard on you because you are the last resort. They think just the one thing, “This acupuncture is going to cure him.” In any disease it’s multifaceted. Whether it’s arthritis like in a fourteen-year-old or allergy that I treat. There’s not one silver bullet, if you will.

The thing that you could appreciate, at least over my career, is that clients and primary care veterinarians and specialists have all evolved to a team concept where there’s less worry about territory. I do my thing. The general practitioner does their thing. The specialist does their thing. We’ve got pets that come in that have six different Docs.

Look at human medicine. Those Docs don’t talk. We talk in veterinary medicine. I’m sure you get history sent to you like this, “I’ve got five years of itching.” I’m reading these histories. I love when we go to the physician. We have a long history, especially you, Janet. You know they didn’t read that history. You heard this door close and your door open.

I’m impressed when they come in and say, “I see that.” I’m like, “You read about me.” I am impressed when they do. I bring a three-page dossier.

At least they come electronically now by PDF instead of by fax machine.

Here’s my favorite question, when you reach a certain age, “Are you sure you’re not on any medications?” I’m like, “Positive. I never go to the pharmacy unless it’s for a hair product.” Honestly, they ask you five times in a session. I’m like, “Really?” I’m not.

Let’s talk about dogs first. You see a lot of senior dogs with mobility issues. What else? It’s interesting because in Florida, another person that fosters dogs from Golden Treasures Rescue. Their older dog went to ER with a vestibular. Explain that would you, Neal? First of all, what is vestibular?

What happens when you have a vestibular episode?

Client’s tthink they’re having a stroke. The dog is disoriented, wobbly, and falling. Our hallmark clinical sign from the dog is that their pupils are moving side to side very rapidly. Sometimes it can be an inner ear issue. A lot of times, we don’t know what causes it. It takes medication. We do a lot of acupuncture, some chiropractic, a lot of patience, and love. Hopefully, we can turn those guys around.

I keep seeing ads for, “Stop Smoking. Come in for Acupuncture.” What’s your opinion on that?

Some acupuncturists have very successful practices doing that. Some don’t fall into that, just treating that one thing, but it can be helpful.

Does it stop the addiction?

The cravings.

Are there any adverse effects that you see from acupuncture in dogs and cats? Has anyone thrown up or something?

Very rarely. A patient might worsen. Their condition might worsen. It doesn’t happen very often. It happens more with herbal medicine than it does with acupuncture. We might get localized bleeding where the needle went in. Again, I can’t remember the last time that happened. I think the biggest thing is that we prepare clients for what to expect.

The biggest thing is that we prepare clients for what to expect. If you've been to physio, you can feel sleepy afterward because of the endorphins released during treatment. We tell clients to expect the same with their pets. They won’t be sore, but… Share on X

Janet, you’ve gone to physio. You get sleepy from the endorphins that happen with a treatment. That’s something we tell clients, “Expect the pet to be sleepy. They won’t be sore but they could be sleepy.” As long as we prepare them for what to expect, they won’t be surprised if it happens. On the day of treatment, we expect the pet to be sleepier than normal.

I don’t think they don’t tell you. It’s like, “Tell me what to expect. Maybe it won’t happen, but at least if it happens, I know I’m okay or the pets are.” I’d rather be prepared.How long does a session take?

When I use needles, those needles are in 15-20 minutes. When I use a laser, it’s very quick. We can be done in five minutes or so. That’s another benefit of using the laser. It’s very quick. For those cats that don’t want to be there, we can get done and get them home.

Do you do donkeys and horses? What’s the most exotic animal you’ve ever used for acupuncture?

We’ve done rabbits in the office, iguanas, and Canada goose.

With a leg problem or what?

Was the goose a pet?

It was a pet.

I would love that.

The iguanas are falling out of the trees in Florida because it’s cold. I’ll send them over there with their back problems. What about water therapy? A lot of people don’t have water therapy tanks. They are very expensive. Do you use that in conjunction with acupuncture or two different things?

We do. It would be in conjunction because as you said, things are multi-modal. We’re using a number of different therapies for every pet. We’re not just limited to acupuncture. We’ve got a pet with mobility issues, arthritis, neurologic problems. We’ve got a great little pit bull from the Cleveland APL coming in. He had some birth defects. He had one of his front limbs amputated. The other one had corrective surgery and a growth plate. He’s been doing a little swimming in the tank to keep that other leg strong.

 

 

Could you give us a video of that? I would love to see him.

I will get a video for you.

Tell me about putting cats in the water tank.

We do it occasionally. Not very often, but we have. Some cats do okay with it. Some cats will reject it out of hand. Years ago, when I first started with my first unit, I had a cat. I think I did ten sessions with him and then on the eleventh, he just decided he was going to drown himself. I saved him because I was in there with him. He decided, “I’m done with this and I’m just going under.”

Do you use a lot of catnip? Seriously?

Yes.

They’re not all turned on by that. You told me that.

It’s genetic. Not all of them.

You need a responder, but yes. Whatever we can do or whatever trick we can pull out.

Herbal Medicine Safety & Quality Concerns

Speaking of catnip, let’s talk about herbal meds. I’m open-minded to anything. I like a combination of Eastern and Western medicine but I worry. First of all, you probably should get it from your veterinarian. If I’m a pet owner, I’m ordering a herbal product from Amazon. How do I know that it’s not contaminated with heavy metals or where it’s coming from? Give us some advice on that.

The bottom line is you don’t know. Even some of our companies that are for veterinarians only, those products can find their way to the black market, so to speak. The unfortunate thing is when a person buys that, it may not be that product. It may be relabeled as something different. It’s pretty risky.

They’re doing a lot of studies revisiting plants for drugs. I love that because it’s better than synthetic. Having said that, how do we know we’re getting the pure form of that plant when we get it? For example, doesn’t China make 95% of our vitamins? Not everything you get from China is bad. I’m not saying that. I’d like to see the data. Can someone be checking that for me when it’s coming into this country?

We had Dr. Cooperman on. They pick stuff off the shelf. Janet, our Dove chocolate has cadmium in it, high levels. Who would have thought?

You just don’t know. You look at some of these athletes that get tested positive for illegal drugs that have snuck their way into their supplements unless the supplements are independently tested. I can imagine what goes on in our world.

Do you have pets that are sensitive to the needles somehow, like an allergic reaction?

Very rarely.

They’re stainless steel or copper.

The needle can be coated or uncoated. Sometimes, a pet or a person can have a reaction to the coating. It’s a pretty rare event.

Do you see a lot of police dogs? They’re very athletic. Shepherds or Belgian Malinois.

Malinois, yes. We’ve seen a number over the years because they are extremely athletic.

They are built, Janet. I’m going to tell you. They’re like a mean fast missile machine.

That’s their job.

I know. I respect them. What do they get a lot of, hip problems or elbow problems? What do you mostly see with them?

You bet. Back, lower back problems too from jumping in and out of the vehicle.

Do you recommend home treatments or diet along with the acupuncture treatment?

Do you mean physical therapy at home?

No. Maybe there’s a food that has a higher concentration of X in it. I don’t know what. I take Libby for acupuncture and she’s doing great. Are there other things that a pet owner could be doing at home depending on that canine’s condition?

We talk about food. We’re sending supplements, some exercises and other things. Anything that we can do to help that pet get better we’re going to do. Clients want to be involved. We can arrange for them to have a laser at home to use on their pet. We pull out all the stops to make sure that they’re getting everything that they can get.

We can arrange for clients to have a laser at home to use on their pet. We pull out all the stops to make sure they’re getting everything they need. Share on X

Do they buy the laser? Explain lasers. Is it a cold laser? I’m confused about that.

It’s based on the wavelength of the light. The company where we have an agreement with it’s a red light. The clients see the red light when they shine the device. It’s completely safe. They don’t have to wear goggles like some of the higher-powered units require. It can be a rent-to-own situation. If we know it’s a short-term thing, they pay by the week. If they have it long enough, then they automatically own the unit. They may just opt to purchase it outright in the beginning. What’s nice is, especially in the few years, a lot of clients will come in and ask. They want to buy one from Amazon. They will be like, “Can I buy this laser?”

What’s your opinion?

It depends on the unit. Again, like the supplements and things, we’ve got to vet that pretty carefully. It’s nice that we have a relationship with the unit that we know and trust.

Isn’t that the truth? There’s so much counterfeit stuff. You’re only as good as your marketing when you’re buying stuff online. How sad is that? Janet, I know Neal would agree with this. I’ve seen people waste so much money on products that we knew weren’t true to the ingredients listed on the label. It’s so sad.

I also find it when I’m shopping. I’m using Amazon because who doesn’t shop on Amazon? When I’m shopping on Amazon, it looks like the filter I got for my humidifier but it’s not the brand. I’m thinking it’s 3M or whatever brand. I look and I’m like, “That’s not it.” It’s tricky. It’s like bait-and-switch.

Even the packaging. They are so good at making it exactly like products that we would sell as veterinarians. I read here in Florida. A husband-and-wife couple in business were selling counterfeit veterinary products. It took them years to arrest them.

You’ve probably seen it on VIN. You see these ads on social media now that are endorsed by veterinarians, and it’s not a veterinarian.

There’s a guy on our AM radio that’s pushing some kind of dog food, but he never says veterinarian. He said, “I wrote a book and an Amazon bestseller.”

Anybody can write a book these days. Neal, I’m not going to name the lab because I do know what it is. They’re selling over-the-counter cyclosporine. Our Durham College is all up in a swivet about that which they should be. Allegedly, it’s by, a veterinarian doctor saying, “Apoquel doesn’t work. This works.” It’s cyclosporine, allegedly.

Neal, you have your veterinary journey. What made you go into the alternative medicine route?

I was injured playing football in high school and I had back surgery.

Which high school did you go to?

Painesville, Riverside.

We’re Euclid High School Panthers.

I had lingering pain.

I don’t think we played you. You were too far. We were Lake Erie League. What were you, Akron Canton or something?

Painsville is East of Ashtabula.

NEC, which I don’t think exists any longer.

You were injured playing football and that got you into alternative medicine.

We’ve had several guests on the show that are doing what they’re doing now because of a personal injury. Gone to so many human doctors, never without success, did some reading on their own and bingo. Its’s so true. One gal we had, had Lyme disease. Cleveland Clinic diagnosed it but they would not give her more than two weeks of doctor cycling. She goes all the way to Albany, New York and she bought herself a hyperbaric oxygen chamber.

I can see why. You can’t have that, Neal, hyperbaric oxygen yet?

We do not.

I bet those are like $80,000.

They’re expensive.

You’d have to have that pet lying in there a long time too for treatment, wouldn’t you?

I don’t know. Do you? In the treatment time, don’t you have to lie in that thing?

Yes.

Getting back to the laser, do people use that laser on themselves when you send it home for the pet?

I think they do.

Lyme Disease, Bartonella, & Chronic Conditions In Pets

I had a client taking a revolution. She thought she had bugs crawling out of her skin. To be honest with you, Neal, now that I know what I know. I bet she had Lyme disease neurosis. I do. She had two pugs, in excellent health, except they weren’t spayed. She would bring in, in a Ziploc bag, what she said, their threads are bug-sprayed. Having said that, on our veterinarian listserv, someone else had the same problem, another dermatologist. I had to put in my two cents.

When you have Lyme, in my case, what are they called?

Spirochetes. They were all over my body.

The thought of it.

There were a hundred questions, Neal, that they asked you. I’ll never forget the wonderful Lyme doctor. He goes, “Have you found yourself using profanity? Exceptionally, I went, “Yes because it was COVID and I could have a mask on.” Nobody knew what I was saying at the grocery store. It’s like, “Out of my way.” It was, “Have you developed OCD tendencies?” There would be a speck on the floor and until that speck was picked up, I could not rest. I was never like that. I feel for the people who suffer from it. It does affect you mentally.

Let me put a plug in for Dr. Ed Breitschwerdt, who we had on the show, the Bartonella extraordinaire expert. He just came out with a book about Bartonella and its possible relationship to autism. A couple of facts. When autistic kids are put on antibiotics for whatever reason, their autism improves. Forty-five to 50% of mothers of autistic kids have some autoimmune disease. I’m only on the third chapter. It’s on Kindle and I can’t put it down. It’s so fascinating. He’s not saying, “Autism cures bartonella.” He’s just saying, “Let’s work them up for it because if that’s a physical reason behind it, we can treat that.”

We have a Facebook page here where I live. It’s a bunch of moms. You can ask for referrals and advice, whatever. A mom went on and said, “I have this tinnitus I can’t get rid of. I’ve been to the ear guy.” I put in there, “Go get tested for Lyme. If the doctor’s office test comes up negative or positive, send it off to hygienics or one of the other labs.” I don’t think people realize that there’s a connection.

Every body system. It just hangs on for good. Neal, do you see many Lyme arthritis dogs or no?

We do.

Contamination Issues In Herbal/Integrative Treatments

That’s scary. The other thing I want to mention, Neal, what is that herb that they use in hemangiosarcoma for the bleeding? I can’t remember.

Yunnan Baiyao.

Remember a little while back that was being contaminated with something that started with an A or something like that. I thought, “We’re using this because we need it for these dogs with cancer.” It’s being contaminated by some drug person. I don’t even know who was doing the contamination.

It’s a Chinese company. They don’t disclose the exact recipe or constituents of it, which is a big red flag. It’s worked its way into mainstream medicine. There’s a Norwegian equity group that maybe has investment interest in them. Anyway, they identified there were Pangolin scales in some of the company’s products. We don’t trust Yunnan Baiyao any longer. I won’t support a company that does that sort of thing. We use a different herb instead of that. You’re right, Yunnan Baiyao has made its way into mainstream medicine and has been used extensively. I have ethical and scientific reasons for not using it anymore.

Chinese medicine has made its way into mainstream medicine more extensively, but I have ethical and scientific reasons for not using pangolins. Share on X

That issue on pangolins, don’t even get me started on that. How are you checking? Is it your integrative medicine group that you exchange ideas when you hear about contamination of a product like we do in Durham?

Exactly. That word spreads pretty fast.

Doesn’t it? Bad news travels fast.

It does.

As it should for something like that.

I want to know about your online Buddhist seminary. That is super cool. Tell us.

I was at a conference with a friend. He was mentioning that he was going to do an in-person Masters of Divinity. I’ve been meditating since vet school because you got to get through somehow.

Meditation, Mind-Body Practices, & Longevity

Remind me to tell you something about meditation when you’re done.

I came home from that conference. I looked online and I found an online seminary. I enrolled and I’ve got a Masters in Divinity from them.

That is so cool. There was just a study in Nature Magazine. We get our mail a week late here. For people that have had cardiovascular disease, have had a heart attack, what perpetuated their lives. They did three groups like meditation, diet, and exercise. The ones that lived longest were the meditating people. It’s so fascinating.

I would believe that about him. One time, I was in the post office behind him. I was coming off a busy day. My eyes were circling in my head. This very nice person in front of me turns around. He said, “Hi Alice,” in the most peaceful voice. I thought, “Calm down.” I didn’t realize it was Dr. Sivula until I got in my car. I got in my car and I was like, “That was Dr. Sivula. I didn’t say hello. He probably thinks I’m horrible.” It was the most peaceful.

I’m driving my car and the whole thing is going like this when I got to 35 miles, the whole car. I drove home and I said to my husband, “What is going on?” He goes, “You probably have snow in the wheel well. I felt that.” I’m like, “Why didn’t you tell me? How do I get it out of there?” I Google it. It’s bad for your car. I had to go to the car wash.

Everybody else had the same problem. I was at the car wash for an hour in 14-degree weather. I got in there and I thought, “Okay, I’m just going to make this a peaceful moment.” What are you going to do? I had to have it done. I watch them wash the cars. Anyway, I got it fixed but it was very stressful to be honest.

Speaking of stressful, when some pets are so stressed having to go to the vet, do you ever do house calls? I know you don’t have the time to do it. A house call takes a long time, especially if you have to chase the cat around the room. Have you ever had to do that? Not chase cats around the room. We’ve all done that. I mean you had to go to the house because an elderly owner couldn’t bring their German shepherd in.

We just haven’t had time. I haven’t done house calls in years. One thing that we do is to see some pets in the car.

Good idea.

We get some large dogs. It’s just too much of a hassle to get them out of the car and get them into the office, even though it’s a short walk. They’ve got mobility problems. They’re in the car. They’re comfy. I just go out to the car and crawl in the car.

Is the masseuse still working at your office?

We’ve gone through a couple. We’ve got one of our originals back.

Janent, I think we should talk about vitamins.

One more question, though. Is there any situation where the pet comes in and you know it’s not going to make a difference?

There’s always hope though.

I agree there’s always hope.

Therapeutic Touch, Heat Therapy, & Pain Management In Pets

I think we can never say that we’re not going to make a difference. I think we can say with certain problems, we’re not going to improve. Maybe we’re going to stall the decline or we’re just going to make him feel better. We were talking earlier. One thing I’ve come to recommend to most of our new clients is some therapeutic touch for them to do at home just to make that pet’s life better. The client loves to be involved. I think it does wonders for both parties. If we’re looking at it strictly, can we fix the disease? Sometimes no, but we can just make their lives better, make everybody’s lives better.

We can never say we won’t make a difference. With some conditions, we may not see improvement—but we can slow the decline or simply help pets feel better. And sometimes, that’s everything. Share on X

How do we not know that you’re not transferring energy? Seriously, I’m a believer in that. Having said that, Janet, in my neck of the woods with allergy and dermatology. I remember having a middle-aged older cocker spaniel in. Neal, you would appreciate this with the ear that looked like cauliflower. They overgrow. I started treating it. I said to the owner, “Let’s try it.” Do you know we rechecked in a month that was gone? I’ve always remembered that. The dog was so nasty because it was so painful. It was like a new dog. I couldn’t believe it.

Having said that about, “Do you think it’s not going to work?” I’ve never thought that because there’s always one. Janet, it was like when daddy had cancer. There’s always one that defies the odds. He lived eleven years after that surgery. Nobody does that.

It was a heavy-duty surgery, too.

He might be the one. They’re coming to Neal. They’re coming to me for hope. By the way, Neal, I’m volunteering with Silver Snout Senior Dog Rescue. It’s all these little dogs with mammary tumors because none were spayed. They want to live. The will to live is there. If I went to a doctor and they said, “He’s not.” They did a study that proved, “Doc, how long do I have to live?” “Three months.” You can’t say that to a person with that condition because you’ve got to have persistence and hope. I appreciate that question. I think both Neal and I are like, “We’re going for it.”

Janet, the number one thing that clients want to know is, are they uncomfortable? If we can say we’re doing everything we can to keep them comfortable, they’ll go a thousand miles. They’ll do whatever.

What about a heated blanket? Have you ever used a thermal? Explain that.

We got to be careful about burning, but we use a lot of heat. We use a lot of heat therapy.

Is it like the stuff you put in the microwave or special dog and cat stuff?

I love the packs that go in the microwave. We have to use those with caution. We never use an electric heating blanket for people. The microwaveable packs, I love them. Nobody has a hot water bottle anymore except for us I think. Hot water bottles are awesome. Warm water and a towel. We’re doing all of that because it can be helpful. On the acupuncture side, the last time we talked about moxibustion. That’s a Chinese herb that comes either loose or it’s rolled into a cigar-like thing.

That’s how we normally use it. It burns at about 240. You light it and you can hold it above the acupuncture point. We can just use it more generally just above a sore area. It drives heat into that area. That’s something we could send home with the client to have them do. There’s medicinal qualities from the odor from the moxie as well.

I was going to ask you about aromatherapy.

Yeah. The traditional mox, which I was just going to finish up with, smells like cannabis. They make a smokeless version that doesn’t have that scent. Medicinally, we don’t think it’s as good but a lot of clients maybe don’t want that odor.

Speaking of CBD, is that a good part of a mobility prescription for some of these dogs?

We use it a lot. A lot of clients have already started it.

You do get them on the right one. Let’s face it.

Again, quality and dosing. For a larger dog, it can be expensive. We don’t want to jump to that and overlook some more basic things that might be helpful for the cost. We’re always trying to spend the client’s money reasonably.

It’s so true. I think it makes us think out of the box more. If I were a human physician and I could check off any tests to run, we’ve got to get the biggest bang for our buck.

I heard something and you’ll agree with this. It is that as veterinarians, we thrive on working with incomplete information.

As veterinarians, we thrive on working with incomplete information. Share on X

It’s so true. Janet, I should needle-point that. I’m serious. That is so true, because the patient can’t talk, number one. Number two, we’re not in their homes seeing what kind of lifestyle they have.

We may not get all the diagnostic tests we need. It’s that whole spectrum of care thing. We’ve been doing it for decades and we just have to. We have to go with what we have.

I still say a good physical exam costs you nothing. $3,000 for CT or MRI can be done but a good physical exam picks up so much.

From tail to nose or whatever you say.

Nose to nuts.

Aromatherapy, Essential Oils, & Respiratory Support For Pets

If appropriate. You asked about aromatherapy.

Yes please. I want to hear about that because I’m really sensitive to smells. I get allergic from potpourri. How does that work with you?

Fortunately, very well. We’ve got a number of companies that produce products, both topical and oral, that are in one inhaled product that we use a ton of for respiratory disease that are safe for pets. We can rely on their quality. They’re not harmful to dogs or cats. We always have to worry about cats. We always ask the client if there’s anyone in the household that is sensitive to smells.

We keep open bottles so that the client can sample it and make sure that no one’s going to be offended by the scent. We use a ton. We have a topical that’s great for arthritis and pain. I just sent out some of the aerosol that goes in an essential oil diffuser for a dog that’s got a throat tumor. He’s having respiratory issues secondary to that. This will ease his breathing.

It’s amazing to me. I was reading in JAVMA about cats that have a high potassium because their urinary tracts are blocked. They use albuterol inhalers for that. When did that start? We didn’t learn that.

We did not.

The other thing is, I graduated in ‘89, you graduated in ‘88. We never met in vet school. I think you were so much around your own class members and the residents because you were always working for them. When I saw that you graduated in ‘88, I’m like, “Damn. We never met.” Did you go to undergrad at Ohio State?

I did.

You’re a Buckeye through and through. Except when you went to your residency, which was in Minnesota.

Yes.

That could only be colder than where you’re at now.

It was a bit of a shock.

There’s Miss Libby. She’s from Golden Treasures. She was an Amish breeding dog who escaped, hit my car, and found her laying in a field. She’s got FHO. Dr. Mark Daye fixed her hip.

Did you bring up albuterol?

Yes, why? You were on it. It circles back to you.

I have the two-year old’s head right here. He’s sucking on that vaporizer thing. I’m literally breathing it in and I’m getting higher than a kite. I’m like, “Why am I feeling like this?”

Neal, I have to tell you. In general practice, when we were doing spay and neuters, I used to get the worst headache from the escaped gases from the anesthesia machine. Honest, that’s how sensitive I am.

Can you smell it?

Yes, because they have a rescue system from it but they all leak. I shouldn’t say that.

How about formalin?

Tell me about it. Doing skin biopsies, we always put them in formalin.

Neal, I have a question. Do you often have patients that know it’s making them better? They come in and go, “Have at it?” Not the owner but the pet.

Low-Stress Veterinary Environment & Positive Pet Experiences

We’re fortunate that we only do the things that we’ve talked about. We’re not doing vaccines or anything uncomfortable. That’s one plus that we have. The other plus that we have is that we’re low volume. We’ve got four rooms. We see a patient every half hour. There’s not a lot of extraneous barking. It’s low stress. We’ve got music going and the essential oils. We’ve created that environment. The cool thing is we get a patient for the second or third time and they know where they’re going.

They know it’s pleasant.

It’s very heartwarming to have the client say the dog is running in the door when they don’t do that in other places.

What’s on your playlist?

We used to do Dr. Susan Wagner’s Through a Dog’s Ear. We rely on that because that’s scientifically tested. She’s a classmate so we support that.

Is she?

Yes.

I did not know that. I’m going to look that up. The name sounds familiar now that you say it.

She did Neurology at MedVet and at OSU.

That takes me back. The problem is most people that we graduated with, they’re either retired or we’ve lost track of them.

More and more.

I have to ask our guest question. We’ve already asked him the other real guest question. Here’s your question. What do you think animals teach us about healing that humans tend to forget?

I think they don’t put a lot of stock in. They’re not saddled with their diagnosis.

They don’t put much stock in the idea that pets aren’t saddled with their diagnosis. Share on X

You’re right. They’re not going on Dr. Google. That’s the whole reason we’re doing this show is to correct all the myths from Dr. Google. Do you have pets? I can’t remember.

We’ve got four cats at home and four at the office. We’ve got two pit bulls from the Cleveland APL.

Good for you. You have ten pets.

My wife would prefer that I divided up like that and say that there’s four cats here and four at the office and two dogs that go back and forth. You can do the addition if you like and come up with a final number.

We get it. We had two office cats, Big Jerry and Little Jerry. I help out Richland County Humane when I’m in Ohio, in Mansfield. They lost Bowman, their one-eyed office cat. I sent them an email. I said, “No one understands when you lose an office cat.” It’s your family. Every day you come in, they’re happy to see you. It’s just such a loss.

Our problem is that we’ve lost two office cats in the last six months and of the four remaining, we don’t have a kid-friendly one. We’re going to have to wait for the feline distribution network to bring a kid-friendly cat. You got to have one in the office.

The two that I adopted that I took home because Little Jerry was from Hinckley Animal Hospital and Big Jerry was from Memphis. The ones that I adopted took home three doors down. There was a rental from my office and a mama cat had kittens in the window well. I managed to get those kittens. I couldn’t get the mom. There’s those twenty acres behind our office. People would dump cats all the time. I think they made their way over to your place. I seriously do.

We just lost one that we had inside for ten years. He was outside for four. We were feeding him and Vinnie at the auto repair was feeding him as well during his outside time. It took us four years to catch that guy.

I believe it. You made him an indoor cat. You must have done something right.

As soon as he stepped in, he never left. He was great.

Once you get a taste of that couch.

Ours won’t go out in this weather.

I don’t blame them.

They’re hunkered down. We have cozy blankets everywhere. They will go to the door and go, “Not me.”

They won’t go out.

We should wrap it up. I’ve got to go rescue those iguanas that have fallen out of the trees because it was 39 degrees here.

I got to go look at the demo.

We can’t thank you enough. I always learn so much from you. I really do.

It was great talking to you guys again.

Great chatting with you. Keep warm and keep those cats warm. The four that are outside, you have little cat houses?

Everybody’s inside. We feed some at home outside, some ferals. We feed some outside too in Richfield. They come around.

You got to. Where else are they going to eat?

Thank you. This has been so helpful and informative.

You’re welcome. It’s great to talk to all of you.

 

Important Links

 

About Dr. Neal Sivula

Speaking of Pets | Dr. Neal Sivula | Integrative Pet Care Dr. Sivula graduated from The Ohio State University in 1988 as a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine. He subsequently completed an internship and residency in large animal internal medicine at the University of Minnesota. Concurrently, he earned his PhD in veterinary medicine and epidemiology.

After eight years in large animal practice, an interest in holistic health prompted Dr. Sivula to start Dancing Paws in 2001. Dr. Sivula has many advanced certifications, including:

 

Additionally, Dr. Sivula is a former board member with the American Veterinary Chiropractic Association. He was elected President of the American Academy of Veterinary Acupuncture in 2010 and remains active within the group as a past President. He chairs the Holistic and Integrative Medicine Committee for the Ohio Veterinary Medical Association, developing continuing education lecture series for veterinarians and technicians. Dr. Sivula was elected to a three-year

term for the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association’s Board of Directors in 2015. In 2018, Dr. Sivula was elected as President of the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association for a term in 2019-2020. He is currently the President of the American College of Veterinary Botanical Medicine.

Dr. Sivula has earned academic recognition teaching in Canada, Germany and throughout the United States at conferences and through affiliations with the Healing Oasis Wellness Center and the Backbone Academy for Veterinary Chiropractic and the Healing Arts.

He was inducted into the Animal Chiropractic Hall of Fame in 2023 and received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Academy of Veterinary Acupuncture in 2024.

In addition to his clinical practice, Dr. Sivula is a Professor, Webinar Manager, and Podcast Host for the College of Integrative Veterinary Therapies (CIVT). CIVT provides evidence-based education for veterinarians, veterinary nurses, and the public in many areas of integrative medicine.

 

 

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