New World Screwworm Risks for Pets | SOP Ep. 125 – Dr. Christopher Lee

Dr. Alice Jeromin and Janet Novotny King welcome back parasitology expert Dr. Christopher Lee to discuss the dangerous rise of New World Screwworm and how it affects our pets. This aggressive parasite eats living tissue and presents a severe threat to warm-blooded animals across North America. Dr. Christopher Lee breaks down the life cycle of the fly, clinical symptoms to watch for, and effective preventive treatments like monthly Isoxazolines. The conversation also covers tapeworm risks such as Echinococcus multilocularis, coyote interactions, and public health concerns surrounding Cryptosporidiosis. Pet owners will learn actionable steps to keep their dogs and cats protected year-round from emerging parasitic threats.

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New World Screwworm Risks for Pets With Dr. Christopher Lee

Everyone, welcome to the show. I know it’s not Casual Friday, but it’s Casual Thursday. We are taping right before the July 4th holiday. You guys will probably see this afterward. I was very concerned about three particular parasites/infections that are really going around in this country that both our pets and us can get. Who do I go to? Our parasitologist, public health specialist, Dr. Christopher Lee. We love having him on as a guest.

I told him to dress casual, too. Something new about Dr. Lee, besides his hosting Vet Watch, his podcast, which I love, is that he’s an assistant professor of microbiology at Lincoln Memorial University College of Veterinary Medicine. That’s a new development since we’ve seen him. Thank you, Dr. Lee. I always love having you as a guest. Janet, one other thing. Dr. Lee is the inventor of the word edutaining because he not only educates us, but I keep telling him he needs to be a standup comic.

Thank you for that great, very gracious intro. It’s always good to see you. I always love talking to you.

Back at you. Janet, you know what, what we’re going to talk about first?

I’m so thrilled to see my sister Janet.

I’m okay with that.

Janet, by the way, is in her new remodeled office/kitchen. We’re very happy.

This is the law office, but this is my husband’s side, truth be told.

I can stage it because once he puts his stuff up there, it is going to look like that. That’s right. I would turn this around and show you Mr. German desk.

Please do not. I need to put a match to it.

Anyway, the first bad disease we want to talk about, and everyone needs to be aware of, is screwworm. I know it’s got a funny name, but it is not funny, right, Dr. Lee?

Is it like this?

Understanding the New World Screwworm Threat

That and just, I mean, the way in which it eats, and it looks. The genus species is, it has a great name, Cochliomyia hominivorax, which means spiral maggot, human devourer. It devours humans. If you look back in the literature too, there are a lot of cases, especially with prisoners in South America way back in ancient times, that they were dying from being eaten alive by screwworms. That ends the name hominivorax, which means the devourer of humans.

We can get screwworm. I thought it was just cattle.

Not just cattle. If you’re warm-blooded and have a pulse, they will eat you.

This is why we’re talking about this today, Janet, because nobody gets it.

In fact, that’s one of the crazy things too is when we typically think of maggots, we think of dead bodies and, you’re watching a movie, CSI, and you come up, and they have the maggots. A lot of maggots, which are called secondary maggots or are facultative, prefer decaying material and/or bodies. Screw worms, man, they like their beef grade A. They want nice flesh that you and I would, again, throw on the grill. They will eat living tissue.

That’s where we get into primary myiasis. Since 1966, we have not had any primary myiasis here in North America, actually from Central America on up. Now that it is back, it is problematic because while the secondary maggots will eat on a corpse of anything. These primary myiasis are very non-discriminatory. As long as the flesh is fresh, they want to eat it. If you go on YouTube too, there’s some crazy ones where you go in, as you scope into someone’s nose, and then there’s a whole little metropolis going on there.

I am going to have to throw up. It’s the fly that’s the whole thing, right? It lands on them and then lays the larva.

The fly itself. With flies, you go from egg to larva, and then you especially with this one, you have three instars, or basically where they get larger as a larva. They turn into a pupa, and then you have the adult flies. The only part that’s eating and living off flesh is the larva, which is what we call a maggot stage. The pupae usually drop off the wound at night, and then very quickly they will hatch and become the adult fly.

The adult flies cause no real problems, but the females will hunt out wounds, and they will fly up to a couple of miles a day to do so. Once they find a mucous membrane or anything as little as a tick bite, they will lay an egg. They will lay eggs, usually a couple hundred. Within 12 to 24 hours, they have hatched, and they’re growing. Part of their life cycle is under optimal conditions. It’s only a few weeks.

They can turn over very fast. There’s actually, if you look back at the literature too, some of the prisoners that were being affected by the screwworm, they would write about how it’s a very bad but distinctive smell. The flies are attracted, and so it will bring in more. You can go from an animal that only has a minor scratch to a very life-threatening situation in a very short period of time.

That’s the fear. It’s killing the animals, right?

Yes. It actually will do it almost in a very gruesome zombie-like way. You go back, and you look at the Key deer that we had, which was in India. They’re so sweet. The problem with that is the pictures that you will find on the CDC and USDA websites. Those deer are more alive shortly just prior to those images being taken. We will put it down. They’re eating all the way into the brain. It’s really crazy.

How are these like herds in it? It’s in Texas right now, correct? If I had a herd of cattle, how would I even check for that?

You go, and you scratch your cattle, and you’re looking for any open wounds. The problem, and this is one of the many, many costs, is that they can develop so quickly. The monitoring of the head of cattle is just not quite as feasible. It can cause mass losses. In South America, where it’s endemic, they’re a little bit better at managing it. You can have 10% up to 30% herd loss due to screwworm. It’s not usually that bad because they have better control and know what to do.

That is not an unrealistic situation in a badly controlled scenario. Those are just margins we do not have in the US. It’s going to have some dramatic impact on beef prices and our whole economy as well. It’s not going away. That’s the other thing that, in fact, I’m doing another episode in a couple of weeks where we’re going over that. It would be great to be proved wrong, but I would be surprised if it does not take until 2029 to get rid of it.

How many dogs have it? I read two, or is it more than that? Were they farm dogs, do you know?

I apologize. I have not gone and taken a look at the recent, for current updates. The best place is Screwworm.gov. The scary thing was when I looked at the site, I was like, “This is going to be bad.” My friends are like, “What do you mean?” I was like, “Look at it. It’s a running ticker.” Keep an eye on that site. They have it, but they’re prepared. If you look at the way that site’s set up, they’re expecting the numbers to just explode out. Anything that we say today is going to be outdated.

It is treatable. For example, for pets, what do you do?

Isoxazolines. Your Quattro, NexGard combo, Simparica Trio. Now, Simparica Trio is not, if I am correct, has not gotten emergency use authorization. The other three of the four Isoxazolines do have emergency use authorization to treat. There is nothing that prevents pets. However, I will tell you that while they do not have that on the label, everybody’s working on it. In my opinion, I would be absolutely gobsmacked if all of the Isoxazolines were not prevented.

I also read nitenpyram, which is Capstar.

It does. It’s one of those when I lecture too, and when I used to run in ERs, Alice and I love Capstar, but it’s gone.

You’re right. The only reason I brought it up is that it’s cheap.

Preventing Parasitic Outbreaks in Companion Animals

It is cheap, and it’s used a lot. That’s one of the things. Whenever I had myiasis, which is your maggot case, I would have my technicians running for the Capstar. They pop it in rectally if the dog was not able to take something orally, and it starts to kill all of your maggots. That’s fine, except we have Isoxazolines now. It is a cost difference. If you look at the cheapness of Capstar for a 24-, or 48-hour fix versus a one-month fix. To me, it’s a no-brainer. The big message is if you’re worried about New World screwworm, get all of your dogs and cats on year-round flea, tick, and heartworm prevention, and you should not have a problem.

How is the screwworm maggot different from a regular household fly maggot?

The regular household fly maggot is going to be secondary myiasis. If you’re a geek like me, it’s always funny, Alice, when you always know, when you have a maggot case in the hospital, people run in both directions.

To it or away from it.

One or the other. I’m one of those, running to it. I take the biggest maggot I can find, and I cut the end off of it, and I pop it into the microscope. That’s the best, easiest way to identify it. A really common one that you see is the green bottle fly. They’re very nice, shiny green. You see them all over. They’re very common for forensic entomology. They will know that you’re dead within about twenty minutes of dying. If you were just dying and not doing well, they’ll be around.

When I was on board, I was doing home euthanasia. It was just always interesting because you’d be outside a lot of times. Animals would be, obviously, not doing well. You got them on pain control, and you’re trying to ease them into that transition. The clients will be like, “There are all these flies.” It was always interesting because studying for boards, I’m like, “They’re not Musca. They’re green bottle flies. These are Lucilia sericata because they know what’s about to happen.” We use those a lot of times for forensics too.

If you have someone who’s dead and you’re trying to establish the time of death, you can actually help out with that. In fact, funny story or not so funny story, I ended up accidentally getting somebody beat up over identification. What happened was they brought me. They came home from vacation, and their dog had maggots all throughout. They came to see me. We treated, got the dog on pain medication, stabilized, wound clean, all that. Anyways, the owner goes, “How long has it been infected?” I was like, “You’re talking to the right person because actually, I identified the species and the time, and it’s been at least eleven days.” He went back and beat him up.

That happened to me, too. In a different way, somebody ran a puppy into our office because the regular vet was three doors down from us. We were with the dermatology clinic, and they said this puppy just got hit by a car. I said, “Bring it in.” It was not hit. It was kicked. You can tell the difference with, I mean, when I felt his chest, I felt that crepitus. Anyway, it’s almost like we’re detectives at times.

It’s like, I did not mean to cause that problem. To get back to the original question, other common facultative myiasis, like some Musca species, like your domestic housefly or your Lucilia, which is like the green bottle fly, need necrotic tissue. That is also why, if you look back in some ancient texts or even older Civil War texts, a lot of the people did better with wounds in the field than they did in the hospital because it was pre-antibiotics. Most maggots in North America, if you have maggots in your body, they’re actually doing you good. They’re eating dead, dying tissue, and they’re pushing sepsis off.

Cleaning it up.

Yes, because they will only eat to the margins of dead tissues. Primary myiasis, which is your primary screwworm or your Old World screwworm, which is not on this continent, they only eat living tissue, and there are other ones too. Some are species-specific. There’s one that, it’s horrible, but they eat baby birds.

I was going to ask you if there was one that eats birds.

Screwworms will as well, but some are actually a little bit more particular about their host. That’s one of the devastating parts of New World screwworm. As long as you’re living in tender, they will be eating it.

When people get it, how can I say, do people live on these farms where the screwworm seems to have affected the cattle, or can you just get it like, “I do not live on a farm.”

Can I get it in my backyard?

If you were in an area that had screwworm, like let’s just hypothetically, there is a screwworm fly, a fertile female screwworm in your backyard and you and your dog take a nap on the hammock. They could have laid eggs right by your eye, and within 12 to 24 hours, it’s eating into your skull. That makes it sound very apocalyptic, and I do not mean for it to be quite that bad. When we take a look at it and why cattle keep coming up, they’re massive pieces of meat. That is why we use them for protein production. You have large animals, lots of them.

They’re getting scuffs and little bruises all over. They just end up being able, percentage-wise, to outdo our numbers on that. To my knowledge, there’s no, I do not know that they sit there and would go, “Let me go to beef over sheep.” It’s a living wound where I am going to hone in on it. The cattle certainly are able to exponentially increase these numbers, and they hit us from a production standpoint. With that said, wildlife can be decimated. It’s a particular problem on anything that is endangered because they can kill so many so fast. That was the problem with the deer. When that came in, it was right at the time that the velvet was shedding. It ended up being that perfect scenario.

Perfect timing. What about like these rescue groups that are rescuing dogs from Texas and New Mexico, and they bring them up to Janet in Connecticut? Is it transferable like that?

It is definitely transferable. They need pretty warm areas.

We got that going on.

That is part of it. In certain parts of, let’s say the screwworm, you just put them in every state and try to see what happened. There are a lot of states where it would be a seasonal situation. Whereas, like, why live it? It’s every day all around in Florida because it’s humid, it’s warm, it’s a screwworm paradise.

Janet has an interesting story that happened to her the other day to talk about our next parasite. When you called me, I did not even know who it was on the phone.

It was the coyote. I am a justice of the peace, and I marry people, and they want to be married down in this park on the beach. I’m walking to the beach, and they’re doing some stonework, and this guy said to me, “Are you alone?” I was like, “Yes,” but I was a little nervous because I was afraid of the humans. He goes, “I just want you to know my boss and I just saw three coyotes.” I said, “Good to know.”

I hung out where the men were working, waiting for the bride and groom. I hope you do not meet them. They show up, and I said, “I am going to walk in with you guys, because there are coyotes.” They get married, this photographer’s there, and I’m like a third wheel. I’m like, “I am going to head out.” I’m thinking, “I am going to feel pretty good because the guys are working, they’re loud.”

Just as I’m getting to where the guys are working, the coyote jumps up on the wall, probably 10 feet from me, maybe 12 feet, stares me down, and does, you know how dogs do that thing. They sniff in the air, and they’re trying to get my scent. I’m like, all I had was a water bottle and my phone, a marriage license, and this diary I use. I took my phone, and I hit the button, and I am going, “Make a siren sound.” It is going, “I cannot do that.” I do not know.

Marriage certificates are pretty dangerous. You should have thrown that at it.

Throwing what at it?

Marriage certificate. What is more dangerous than a marriage certificate?

Dr. Lee, what I learned later.

He did not get her tip yet.

I do not get a tip.

I know, but I am just making it up.

You do not throw anything. What you’re supposed to do is not hit them. You’re supposed to throw it to the side or something. Here I am, I went like this, and I stopped.

It is a big thing.

I am pretty big like this, and I “Ahhhh.” Nobody came to help me, by the way. I am sure those guys could hear me. I was screaming, and then it jumped off the wall like the reeds, and now I am like, ” God, now I have got to walk past it.” I kept doing this, and as I am walking past it is going, “Arrrrgh.” A day later, our police department closes down that path and puts out a warning that there is a mama coyote with four of her kids.

You did not step in the poop, did you? That’s what we’re going to be talking about.

No, I did not step in the poop. Now I found out I can get something from that thing?

I’ll let you handle that, Dr. Lee.

Are you leading me down to Echinococcus?

I am.

Wait a minute. I even wrote the word down. That’s what it means. Cryptosporidium.

That’s the next thing.

Echinococcus, right now, I do not know. I hope this does not get people upset, but when we think about the combination products of flea, tick, heartworm, there’s a lot of discussion on that too, because I think everyone’s trying to figure out what is the best one, which one should I? There is one that does do tapeworms, which Echinococcus is a type of tapeworm.

If you have not heard of it, it’s not super common, but it is horrible. It can kill people, it can kill dogs, and in many cases, even with the very best of medicine, it is incurable. It is a very scary one. Elanco makes a medication called Credelio Quattro that does have praziquantel, which is a dewormer for tapeworms. It will take care of it. That there’s also been a couple of publications, because when we thought about it, it’s interesting. I love tapeworms. I just think tapeworms are so fascinating.

I’m so glad somebody does.

I know, right? The mystery of why I am single.

It’s because people are swiping.

I wanted Dr. Lee to talk about it because everybody sees coyotes now, no matter where you live.

They’re everywhere here.

Identifying Dangerous Wildlife-Borne Tapeworms

Tapeworms are just so fascinating because, truly, from Hamlet, there’s really a method to their madness. You take a look at it, and it’s almost as if they’ve really thought this all through. With tapeworms, with only one exception, all of the various tapeworm species out there require an intermediate host. You have an intermediate host where your asexual multiplication occurs, and that’s where the damage occurs. There’s the definitive host with sexual reproduction.

Can we do an example, like a mouse has the tapeworm, then what happens?

I am getting there. Let us take Echinococcus granulosus, which is the, it’s the sheep one. Imagine you’re a tapeworm. You want your forever home. These things last. Some tapeworms, depending on the species, can live decades. They are the longest tapeworm. The blue whale tapeworm is actually longer than the blue whale itself. It’s the longest animal on the planet. I love tapeworms.

That’s crazy.

They can live for a decade. If you were a tapeworm, your goal is to get into your definitive host because it’s awesome. You do not have a GI tract. You just feed off of what they’re feeding on. You have these little hooks that you attach to their small intestine, and then you just hang out, and you’re going to live for a decade. You’re going to eat. If they’re having pizza, then if you’re having pizza, they are too. They eat pizza at night, and they are nonstop sexually reproducing. If you’re a tapeworm, it’s a pretty cush gig. You’re in a nice warm home, nonstop sex and food for ten years or so. I do not know.

There you go. The reason I frame it that way is that part of the method to madness is that for Echinococcus granulosus, they will get into sheep. Sheep are the intermediate. You have the tapeworm inside of the dog. Part of the reason it’s tapeworms is they’re long, flat worms, and they’re those segments. Each segment has male and female reproductive systems, and they’re making a bunch of eggs. That slowly turns into a little proglottid or packet of eggs. You shed those eggs. Those eggs go out into the environment. You have a dog out amongst the sheep. They go to the bathroom.

The rain comes, and now you have those viable eggs sitting on the plants. The sheep come in, eat it. Now that gets into the sheep. That’s your intermediate host. They’re going to multiply. They’re going to do asexual multiplication. Here’s where the crazy thing is. Many parasites, it’s a good general rule, but it’s not by far an absolute. Often will be very nice to their definitive host. Which, if you’re going to have a place where I am going to be here for 10 or 20 years and we’re going to eat and party all the time, why would you just leave it alone?

Your intermediate host. You’re anxious. You want to grow up. You’re like, “Let us get this going.” Often, the asexual reproduction is where a lot of the damage occurs to our animal. This is also why, with small animal veterinarians, we do not talk a whole lot about a lot of other tapeworms, just because, as definitive hosts, the tapeworm is helping you out. It’s not doing anything negative. Maybe not helping you, but not doing anything negative. With sheep, they will give multilocularis. I am sorry. That was going off on this. We’re talking about granulosus.

There’s Taenia multiceps, which is very similar to that, so it’s going back and forth. Let me back up. There’s a couple that go from sheep to dog because that’s a very common thing. Echinococcus granulosus will get into the sheep. Echinococcus granulosus. The dog eats the sheep, and then it goes back. Taenia multiceps is also that same pattern, but they’ll actually cause brain masses inside of the sheep and cause something called gid. It’s a way they become staggering neurologically, and they will have like these large masses.

They actually become debilitated. It helps further that. Granulosus is not quite to that, but it goes, it does get into the sheep liver, and it can cause some problems as well. That’s your sample of going back and forth. When we think about granulosus, E. granulosus is worldwide, but you need sheep. The big thing in the topic now is Echinococcus multilocularis. That one is scary because the intermediate host is rodents. Now you’d sit there and think, “You have got coyotes, you have got rodents, so this thing is everywhere.” Actually, it’s been very geographically limited. We do not know why. Part of it is because we probably do not have it.

It’s rare, and we do not have really good ways of looking for it until recently. There was a recent study where they looked at one of the major laboratories, and they looked at over two million samples that had PCR done. PCR is really your great way of taking a look at it because you look for genetic material. Tapeworms are very much underdiagnosed. Even the very common cat flea tapeworm, if you look at a standard fecal versus PCR, you’re going to have nineteen times more positives. You’re missing dozens. Every time you diagnose a flea tapeworm that your client sees, or you see visually, if you’re not running PCR, you’re missing dozens, at least more than a dozen.

We know that they’re underdiagnosed, but because they’re also not causing any damage to your dogs or cats, we do not focus on it a lot. We do not run it. Now that PCR is getting cheaper, we see it. There was this study of two million PCRs. What was shocking was that we had cases in Seattle, Portland, Colorado, and the Chicago area. In areas where we really were not expecting them, and except for one of the cases, none of them had travel history. That is where it comes in. Where this balance comes in is now we’re like, “Let us sound the alarm. This is crazy. We need to get everybody on monthly praziquantel.”

Maybe. It’s wrong. I do like praziquantel, and I speak quite a bit, just in full disclosure on Credelio Quattro, but I speak for a couple of the other companies as well. There’s a balance. Do we need praziquantel for everything? There are pluses and minuses to it, but if you’re concerned, I do think it is a great thing. Do note, though, that out of those 2.3 million samples, the number of cases of Echinococcus was 26. To put it in perspective, but with that, if you’re in an area that you’re worried about, that is only one of many other tapeworms.

Evaluating Monthly Deworming and Broad Protection

If you’re worried about just tapeworms in general, and there are a lot of things that praziquantel will take care of above and beyond that as well, it’s something to consider. There’s a lot of discussion, and I think people are fully on board for praziquantel, and then those that are. It’s irresponsible to use it every month. I am in between. I do not worry too much. Our resistance is always an issue, and we need to be very judicious with how we use these medications. Praziquantel has been out there forever. We have not really been seeing that. I do not think that the sky is going to fall down if we use it at the same time.

The sky is not falling down when we have not. It’s an individual conversation. Depending on where you are, if this is something that you’re concerned about, Credelio Quattro is a really great option for those people. For those that are saying, “You know what, I do not need to worry about Credelio Quattro.” You have NexGard Combo and Simparica Trio that are both fantastic products that still take care of your rounds, your hooks, your heartworm, your fleas, your ticks, and probably New World screwworm.

That’s my question. Is Average Joe, a pet owner, Libby, getting her heartworm and tick medicine every month, which is due today? Is she covered? Do I need to worry about anything else?

What are you using?

You tell me, Alice.

She’s on Interceptor, or are you on Heartgard for Heartworm?

Interceptor and the other one, Credelio.

She’s not on the Quattro. You’re just on a plain Credelio.

She’s an inside-outside dog, and so are our cats, and our cats are killers. Cats definitely. I just cleaned up a mouse yesterday.

All dogs and cats in North America would be better served to be on flea, tick, and heartworm prevention. There are a lot of different options that you can do. Right now, Zoetis makes ProHeart 12. It’s a one-injection for all year for heartworm. There’s a one-year flea and tick product as well. There are options for that. At the same time, having two different products is a great way to go. For convenience, a lot of people like these combinations. Credelio Quattro goes ahead and takes care of so many things all at once. Again, so do Simparica Trio and NexGard Combo. It’s there’s pluses and minuses to absolutely all of them.

The one thing, despite, I think the one thing that we should always look at is it does not matter which one you pick. They are all some-in-ones, not all-in-ones. To me, which product is the best? It’s the one that gets in consistently to the pet. I also would state that I think you brought up a really good point of, “My cat’s indoor, outdoor, and a hunter.” That is one of the problems. It does not matter. I think that may increase risk, but being not in that, I talked to so many people like, “No, my indoor cat eats pâté on a literal silver platter like it. We bought this at an estate sale. It is silver. We’re in a gated community, so I do not give my pet anything.”

Who says that? “I am in a gated community.” My favorite one is, “I am in a gated community, so we do not have mosquitoes.”

That’s right. We live in very small bars here. You need a passport. I always like talking about nature’s DoorDash. Remember the old Jurassic Park, “Nature finds a way,” Jeff Goldblum? Flies and cockroaches. Those things, like your Musca domestica, can transmit all types of internal parasites if your cat eats it. I always ask clients when I am in the room, for that indoor pet cat that does not need anything, “Has your cat ever eaten a spider?” A lot of times they’re like, “No, he’s great at that.”

Managing Parasite Exposure in Indoor Cats

I’m like, “If I had a cat, that would be their main job. If they’re not eating spiders, we’re having a sit-down. That is your whole job. That’s nothing else.” If they’re eating arthropods. Many arthropods, not spiders, but many arthropods are paratenic or phoretic transfers of various parasites. I will send you a really great article that you can pop into the link and a couple of tables that I made off of it. The list is actually stunning of what indoor cats can get. My big message is every dog and cat in the United States should be on flea, tick, and heartworm year-round.

Year-round, for sure.

It will take care of a lot of these. Now, again, things like Echinococcus. If we’re not on praziquantel, there are great products like Simparica Trio and NexGard Combo. Those do not have it. Again, if you’re not, you also should be doing rodent control just generally. We did a whole series of videos on Hantavirus recently. I just really do not want to be living with rodents no matter how cool The Secret of NIMH looks.

The cats are rodent control. We call them Orkin.

I like it. I like it.

I have to be honest, we’ve always had indoor-outdoor cats, and I know people get upset about that, but they’re happier cats.

Where you live, because you do not live on a busy street. You’re like back in the woods. People cannot even find you like us.

In the morning they’re like, “I am going out.” They’re not putting on their pocket protector. It’s going to work.

They get very excited.

It’s a hot topic. There are pros and cons on both sides. Some places where I lived in Southern California, you had indoor cats, and you had coyote food. There is that issue, too. Then, when you take a look at the decrease in our nation’s songbirds, there’s a large factor with indoor-outdoor cats, because now, if you take a look at the cats that they descended from, like in the wild, they typically have like a three-mile radius to themselves. Now, you have got 10, 20 times that in that radius, and they all have food and medical care, and the songbirds are screwed. Again, I do not want to say that taking extremes on anything can be problematic. In a lot of the cats too, like your eighteen-year-old cat that’s indoor-outdoor, is she really taking down a bunch of bluebirds? Probably not.

We’re going to run out of time before we talk. I want to be the one to say it. Cryptosporidiosis.

That’s close.

Crypto sounds like death.

It comes from hidden in that particular one. It’s a very small parasite. To me, it’s one of the reasons why I stay away from water parks.

Now, is that something from baby diapers, like I can get from a baby diaper, as if someone like just let the baby go?

You are not getting anything good from a baby diaper, Alice.

How many times have I had to close that pool in California because of a Baby Ruth floating by?

When mother used to go to the Y swimming, they called everybody out of the pool, the old people, because they had to get the Tootsie Rolls out.

Remember, like we think of our young childhood days and the chlorine pools and that smell of chlorine.

I love that smell.

Here is the problem. I will send you a link because I wrote an article, too, about the one question you need to ask yourself before you get into a pool.

I just went to water class this morning.

Here is the thing. If you have a properly chlorinated pool, you do not smell chlorine. When you smell chlorine, it is from chloramines. That is a reaction to things like sweat, urine, feces.

It is fighting it off.

It breaks down. Remember, part of the reason, like what we like reactive atoms, is that they bond and they do their thing. We have chlorine that is out there going to bond. Chlorine by itself, when you have a properly chlorinated pool, smells of nothing. When you have a Tootsie Roll going on by, the chlorine is going nuts, and you are getting chloramines. You smell this fresh, clean. No, this is the aftermath. Actually, that is why I like chlorine pools over saline, at least, that is not.

Actually, the company I worked for in California. The last club we built that had a new pool used ultraviolet light. It was a new system where it went through this lighting system. Did that work?

A lot of these things, let us go back before we go on that, like the salt water. There are a lot of reasons to move away from chlorine, and there are a lot of ways that are better, and I do not disagree with that. Let us say that you have a great UV thing, and so you have a little Tootsie Roll that goes on by, and it gets UV’d, and it is all taken care of and still floating on by. I do not know. I know. To me, the one question you need to ask yourself before you hop in a pool is, “Would I bathe with these people?”

That is what you are doing. That is literally, truly what you are doing. It is funny because I love Roman history. I remember going up to Bath and being with a few people, and they were like, “I would never go into a bathhouse.” I am like, “How is that different than a pool?” We call it that, and definitely in the US in today’s world, bathhouse does mean something else. From a standpoint of just the water, you are getting into a pool, and most people bathe after. You are supposed to bathe before. I do not know if that rule is taken super well.

Where do you think this current resurgence of it is? I just saw it on the news. A big infectious disease taking hold across the country. I am like, “What is that?” I read it was cryptosporidiosis.

I do not worry too much about that. It is just a slow news day. Problem is, and that comes back to like, people go against cruise ships, and I love going on cruises. It is my favorite way to travel. Part of the reason why cruise ships get hit is that from an epidemiologic standpoint, they are gold. We have the data. We know who is there. We have all the data to run it. It does not necessarily mean that it is that much worse. In fact, I would say that I have never been into a restaurant where, as you are walking in, they have a “wash your hands” song, and they are like, “Washy washy.” I am like, so cruise ships really go out above and beyond their way. If any cruise ship ever wants to sponsor me. I love cruise ships.

I do feel like a couple of these cruise ships.

With that, but I think that from an epidemiologic standpoint, we can track it. With water parks, it is trackable, and they know. They know who is coming in and going out, but the problem with Cryptosporidium is a couple of things is because it is a parasite and not a bacterium. It is hardy. That is one of the things, like when I talk to my students, the whole reason that you take biology and talk about prokaryotes is that they are simple, like a bacterium with no nucleus, and then eukaryotes like all of us, my fellow eukaryotes, so is crypto.

That creates a level of complexity, and it also makes it harder to treat. A lot of the basic things that we use to sterilize bacteria do not work on crypto. Chlorine, they are highly resistant to chlorine. In a chlorinated pool, Cryptosporidium will be just fine. If you have someone who comes in with some raging diarrhea, if it is from Salmonella or Campylobacter, it is so gross because it is part of the water that you are enjoying and splashing around and swallowing, but it is all dead bacteria. Crypto is not.

The second problem with crypto is it has a very low infectious dose. There are a lot of things that, when you think about viruses and bacteria, and we think about them, that are from one infected individual. How many do we get? Crypto becomes a lot easier to get infected from because, while usually it is a little bit over 130-ish oocysts that you ingest to get infected, you can get infected with as little as ten. That is very unusual, and they are insanely small.

The fact that it has a very low infectious dose, they are shed in mass amounts in diarrhea, and that it is resistant to a lot of sterilization methods, they become these big issue. When you have situations like pools, water parks, cruises, where you also can track who is coming in and coming out, you get one person that gets out and gets diagnosed, and then we are able to track it back. It is unfortunate because I feel like a lot of times companies that are doing the right things get punished for it. There have been some green onion E. coli outbreaks.

Recognizing the Risks of Cryptosporidiosis

I want to say it has been like Chipotle and Taco Bell, and people like, “I never eat there.” I was like, “They are a major chain that is actually doing the right thing to help you.” At any rate, I feel like life is at risk. We should go out and live our lives. To me, that does not always involve jumping into a pool, but I love cruises, and I do hop in the jacuzzi. There you go. We all have to pick our battles. Cryptosporidium, it is not going to kill you most of the time. Also, there are a lot of species to it. The other thing is that there are some that do cross over to humans, so it is zoonotic. There are some which are not zoonotic.

You can get that from a petting zoo, cannot you? My classmate, when we were doing cows, she got crypto and she was in the hospital for days and days, so dehydrated.

Also, one of those, but they can also get it from you, too. A lot of times, one of the problems is that a lot of times who goes to a petting zoo is children, just like water parks. A lot of times they give it to the animals as well. It is two-way, but not all Cryptosporidium is zoonotic. There are a lot that are maintained just amongst ruminants, too.

As we are talking, I got breaking news. FDA issues highest risk recall for popular potato chips. What is wrong with them? Dry milk seasoning with possible Salmonella content. It is Zapp’s, Dirty Potatoes, and Utz, which is a huge brand.

We had an Utz salesman for a client.

We had bushel baskets full of all stuff. One more thing popped up. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are donating $26 million.

I knew that.

One of those is the ASPCA.

Good, because I did not see any animal ones there. It is ASPCA. It is like the food pantry and all that, but no animals.

She is a cat person.

I have to ask our Dr. Comedian. Here is your guest question because you are a two-timer. What is your party entrance song?

God, that is such a loaded question. At Fetch, we had to do a walk-on song. I have gotten so much negative feedback for my walk-on song.

What is it? Tell us.

No, because now, I mean, I guess I do not understand the proper, what a proper walk-on song is. I just picked the song that, when I am feeling like a little pick-me-up, it is a song that is always my go-to, which is Tin Man by America.

That is a good song.

It is a great song. Again, if you are younger, you probably have no idea what any of us.

That is cool. That is an excellent choice.

I listened to a lot of yacht rock, hence love the cruises.

Wait, have you watched the documentary on yacht rock?

I have not.

It is fabulous.

It is very good.

By the way, I had the pleasure of meeting Michael McDonald in the ‘90s. He did a gig where I worked. He was stoned. If you read his bio, he does not really remember any of his life. We were all strong and high doing it. I still like him. He is a good guy.

He is incredibly talented.

If Taylor Swift is donating all that money to ASPCA, then much love from me.

No, I agree.

It is a whole variety of charities, but it is 26 million.

Love you, Taylor.

Yes, many thanks to Taylor.

Love you, Travi.

Thank you for using all of those incredible vocabulary words, which will not work in my world.

I could just go on and on about all of this stuff.

We have got to get him on a cruise, Janet.

We have got to get him on Hinge, and do not mention tapeworms because he said do not mention tapeworms in your bio. I do not think that is a good entrée.

I should not do that. The big key takeaway for everyone watching. If you are a veterinarian or veterinary professional, be pushing flea, tick, and heartworm medications. Trio, NexGard Combo, Credelio Quattro, year-round protection for all of our pets. That should protect you from New World screwworms. Definitely, a couple of those are licensed for emergency use for treatment. At least every month, it would take care of it. In my opinion, they are most likely to be prevented. If you are worried about tapeworms, the addition of using Credelio Quattro is another option.

I have to tell you, Libby loves getting that every month.

Great product.

Mine just added.

One of the great things about those three options is that consistency and taste are a little bit variable. If your pet does not like one, there are other options as well. It is nice to have multiple great options, but all three of those are fantastic products.

We are so lucky in this day and age with those products.

Do you remember when we graduated? I am trying to remember. There was the number one product back in 19.

Lufenuron.

Yes, but there was a house bomb, and I have to look back on my notes, but it was in 1993, the year before Frontline came out. It is still sold, but it is a newer generation. The old generation, the label stated you had to turn off all of your pilot lights.

I do remember that.

Advocating for Consistent Veterinary Prevention Protocols

These kids now, I mean, if you are a young pet owner, it is like, “Here, take this once a month, and it takes care of all of these amazing things.” Back in our day, it would be like, “Get any children that you like out of the house, turn off your pilot light so you do not burn your house down.”

We have come a long way. I will say that.

In the 1980s, there were more dogs dying from fleas than from Parvo. That was before the Parvo vaccine was launched.

That’s true.

Parasites are just crazy.

Thank you so much. We appreciate you. Thanks for taking the time to educate our audiences. Everyone, thanks for tuning in. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for sharing, liking, loving us. Do not forget to send in your questions. You can email us at SOPPodcast.com, two P’s in there. Alice, what do you want to say?

I just love having Dr. Lee on. To me, it is like a whole comedy hour, but I have still learned something.

I did. I learned a lot. Thank you so much, and we will see you next time.

Bye everyone.

Important Links

• Dr. Christopher Lee
• Dr. Christopher Lee on YouTube
• Vet Watch
• Lincoln Memorial University College of Veterinary Medicine
• About New World Screwworm
• Stop Screwworm: Unified Government Response To Protect The United States
• A Systematic Review of Zoonotic Enteric Parasites Carried by Flies, Cockroaches, and Dung Beetles
• ORCID
• www.neoccj.com    Country Critter Journal

About Dr. Christopher Lee