Concerned about watching your beloved middle-aged or older pet slow down? Discover the secrets to better pet mobility and a higher quality of life in this essential episode of Speaking of Pets! Join us as we welcome integrative veterinary expert Dr. Kelly Fishman. Dr. Fishman, owner and founder of Strut Animal Mobility Specialists, shares her multi-modal approach—combining nutrition, fitness, and advanced therapies like acupuncture and hydrotherapy—to help aging cats and dogs stay active, comfortable, and happy for years to come. Don’t let your vet dismiss stiffness as “just old age.” Learn the subtle signs of pain and what you can do today to give your furry family member the best possible golden years.
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Unlock Your Dog’s Mobility: A Vet’s Guide To Pain Management, Physical Therapy, & Senior Pet Fitness
Janet, isn’t it sad when our middle-aged and older pets are having trouble getting around? You see they’re getting skinny in the hind end and your heart goes out to them. I listened to a wonderful webinar for veterinarians by Dr. Kelly Fishman, whom I asked to be on the show because I wanted to share what she shared with us, veterinarians to all pet owners. She gave such wonderful insight into an integrative form using nutrition, state-of-the-art therapy, fitness, and how to help these middle-aged to older pets still maintain a good quality of life. I wish there was someone like that for us because I’m not getting any younger.
A little bit about Dr. Kelly. She did her undergrad at the University of California, Berkeley. Her vet degree is from Ross University. She went on to do an internship in Florida, at the University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine. She is the Owner and Founder of Strut Animal Mobility Services and is on the advisory board for Myos Pet. She is a Veterinary Acupuncturist and a Certified Rehab Therapist. This is our go-to person to help these middle-aged.
First of all, what is middle-aged in a pet? Be it a cat or a dog and different breeds. How can we help our pets? These pets are living longer. We want them to have a good quality of life as they’re living longer. Welcome, Dr. Fishman. I can’t tell you how much I learned from the webinar I listened to that you did for us veterinarians. I want these pet parents who tune in to our show to be privy to some of that.
Thank you for having me. I have made it my life’s passion to try to spread so much awareness about dogs’ mobility, because I feel like, as veterinarians, we have forgotten about it. We looked at the kidney health. We looked at how their heart was functioning. What are their liver values? We do this blood work every year. You look at their eyes, and maybe there are other things that are changing, but you’re not paying attention to their musculoskeletal system.
I have made it my life’s passion to spread awareness about dogs’ mobility because it feels like, as veterinarians, we’ve really forgotten about it. Share on XMeaning the way that they move around their environment and their ability to move around their environment without pain. That’s where I come in. I want to try to give our dogs the best possible health span, which is what we call it now. Where they’re able to walk without pain, have strength, and live great golden years.
Did you have an elderly pet that inspired you? I’m in dermatology and allergy. What inspired you to go into this field?
Part of what inspired me was that I was working in a cat clinic before veterinary school. A lot of these geriatric cats have come in. They were so arthritic. They were so sore. They weren’t using their litter boxes. They weren’t jumping anymore. They weren’t playing. You knew it wasn’t behavioral. It was pain. Back then, before vet school, there was nothing we could do. Still, the pain medication for older kitties is limited but it was even more so.
I started to look at public acupuncture as a tool to help manage their pain. I got interested in that first. During veterinary school, I formed a pain management club because I was interested in helping my fellow students and me learn more about all these different ways to manage pain, such as acupuncture, massage, chiropractic, and exercise. Many stuff exists in the human side that we were, as veterinarians, late to the game.
Sadly so.
I have an elderly pet, and I haven’t done anything. They’re getting old like me. How do I know when it’s time to seek out services like acupuncture or physical therapy? They don’t talk to me.
Recognizing Signs Of Pain In Pets (Behavioral Changes)
What I say is I start to look for some changes in their behavior to recognize signs of pain. As vets, we’re trying to tell owners that we can start looking at pain signs. It’s not necessarily a yelp, a limp, or a gimp, but in changes in behavior and activity. This has even become so prominent that some of the drug manufacturers are now taking some of their pain scales and their pictures. For example, if you look at Solensia, which is a pain medication that’s prescribed for arthritic cats. They show pictures of a cat not being able to jump up to a perch like they used to do. They used to do it. Now, they can’t.
We can start by looking at pain differently. The signs aren’t just a yelp, a limp, or a gimp, but changes in behavior and activity. Share on XThey’re not using the litter box. The owner or the pet mom, spent $1,000 doing all this blood work and checking to make sure there’s not a urinary tract infection. It’s not that. Nothing else has changed. What has changed is that the cat is arthritic. These pain scales that I would give to you for you to look at for your dog or for your cat are pictures. They’re pictures. It’s observing your animal and paying attention to what behaviors it has and what’s changing. It’s up to you as a pet parent to track that.
You bring it to your vet and say, “My dog’s slowing down on their walks. My dog used to jump up into the car and now, they’re not. My dog was able to go up the stairs, and they’re not able to do that.” Those are all these subtle behavior changes that are pain or weakness signs that we’re trying to identify. You have to tell us vets because we don’t know. We’re not at home. It’s up to us to listen to you and do a good exam, and be like, “Where is it? I’ve ruled out all the interior stuff. It’s something physical. Is it pain? Is it weakness?” Your job as a pet parent is to start paying attention to those little things and letting us know.
What does physical therapy look like for a dog?
Non-Pharmacological Pain Management & Fitness (Physical Therapy Overview)
What it looks like is we have a big pain component. It’s a bunch of non-pharmaceutical ways to manage pain. We have another big part of it, which I call fitness. That fitness is muscle strength, cardiovascular endurance, balance, and body awareness. We have those two big areas where we provide our services to help make our dogs more mobile. I can go on and on about it. We have a lot of ways to manage pain in dogs that are not pain medication, such as heat, eye and back heat.
A good point that you brought up in your webinar that I listened to was the mobility aspect. It’s great to take your pet for a walk, especially the dog. I don’t know a lot of people who walk their cats. I’ve also seen people who are pulling the elderly dog. I want to go up to them and say, “I think this was too much of a walk for this dog at this age.” How do you get it right? At what age do you consider middle age in a cat or dog? I know that’s a loaded question.
What’s middle age in humans?
I think 50.
A woman lives until 85. That’s the average age, life expectancy.
Unless they’re a smoker. I won’t get started.
Smoker or drinker, but the average age is 45. It’s probably 45 or 50. I know some dog breeds live longer than others.
Defining Middle Age In Dogs & Cats (By Breed/Size)
It’s got to be by breed. This is a rough understanding of what I put together because it’s not an easy question to answer. We know as veterinarians, we’re given a standard for geriatric and senior. Those are defined. I can look up guidelines in the last 25th percentile of the dog’s estimated lifespan. A Labrador, for example. I could look that up. I feel like a good way for us to start noticing some of this earlier stuff is a way to be preventative and help prevent frailty at old age. It’s to start paying attention in midlife.
What is that with people? It’s 45 or 50. If you’re a small breed dog like a French Bulldog or a Dachshund, that’s going to be about ten years old. Our cats and our large breed dogs over 50 pounds are hitting that about seven years old. If you have a Lab, that’s seven. If you have a cat, it’s the same age because we were thinking cats are reaching a senior age, more about eleven years old. If it’s anything like cats, they live to eighteen.
Same here, 21.
They’re geriatric for half their life. Maybe we should change that. It seems they’re living long.
Thank you so much for what you do because some vets skirt the issue. A good idea when you go to your veterinarian is to say, “I see he’s getting older. What are my options?” You force them to give you choices instead of, “Let’s give him a cortisone shot. We’ll take the inflammation down” type of thing.
Put him on gabapentin. I don’t even know that one.
It has its use. Janet, you’re on an anti-gabapentin since you read that article. Let me ask you this. I know how to exercise a dog. How do you exercise a cat?
There are a few things that you could do. You could certainly use one of those exercise wheels. I use a laser pointer. You could use a laser pointer to get you to stretch. You’ll never believe it. In rehab school, we have a whole bunch of exercises. I have a big exercise program just like your PT does. For dogs, I could have a video of a dog doing a squat, a dog doing a plank, or a dog doing a pushup.
It even goes on. We have bunnies. They don’t do the strength exercises, but a lot of them get back issues. I’ve personally rehabbed bunnies with those. Those exercises may look like walking over a little pole to build up body awareness again, or hopping. We even have ones for birds. Sometimes, birds get arthritic talons. They have to do a lot of grip exercises.
It’s gripping stuff.
That’s my problem.
When you search for the exercises for cats, there are only two. The cats are jumping in and out of the box. Stretch them again.
That’s true, though. Is there anything people can do nutritionally? Should I call them middle-agers or aged pets? I hate to say middle-agers but as a preventative.
Nutritional Support For Aging Pets (Omega-3s, Proven Supplements)
It’s a great question because I feel like a lot of times, as veterinarians, we’re very guilty of saying joint supplements. A lot of times, I come in and I start to read through our history. They’re on three different joint supplements. They’re overdosing on glucosamine, which we don’t even have much evidence for. From a supplement point of view, I say I want to do things that are anti-inflammatory all over good. Do something good for the joints and then do something to support the muscle because as they’re aging, as they’re going from adulthood to senior, they are losing muscle.
As pets age and move from adulthood into their senior years, they lose muscle and become sarcopenic—just like we do. This is linked to frailty and increased euthanasia at the end of life because they can’t get up. That’s why maintaining muscle is so… Share on XThey are getting sarcopenic as much as we are. It is linked to frailty and increased euthanasia at the end of their life because their legs can’t get up. It’s important to maintain muscle. What I always say is Omega-3 fatty acids. You’re a derm, so you know the benefits of that. Make sure you’re giving a dose high enough because I know the derm dose is way lower than the dose that I recommend for my dogs with arthritis. High doses of Omega-3s, that’s what I take myself. Also, doing things like prudent joint supplements. Again, high doses of Omega-3 fatty acids and type-2 undenatured collagen have the most evidence.
I have read about that. That’s fascinating.
They did a cool study where they had dogs. What they did was they had nice, healthy young dogs. They sprinted on them. They would run the dogs over and over. They looked at the cartilage at the end of doing that, like the inflammatory mediators. The type two collagen seemed to be the most protective for that collagen. I’ve started working with Myos Pet, which has a product called Fortetropin. Why I started to do that was that they are one of the only supplement companies that have gone ahead and put the time and money into studies in dogs, cats, and horses.
It is so important.
They’re good studies. They are placebo-controlled, double-blinded, and the best top-quality studies of 100 dogs. You never get a study of 100 dogs in veterinary medicine. If I’m going to stand behind and recommend something, it has to have evidence behind it. That’s what I say. We have evidence talking about frail dogs and then moving into animals becoming seniors.
We know that if we start them on something like Fortetropin or Myos Pet, they’re going to have a better quality of life. They had better load studies and all sorts of things. It does improve their quality of life because they don’t get weak. We’re all taught the same thing. You have to maintain muscle mass as you age. It’s an important part of healthy living.
What you said about a supplement company that can provide you with studies, so many of them have flashy covers and make all these claims, which legally, they’re not allowed to do. We all know that the FDA doesn’t check on supplements. It’s so important to stick with a recommended supplement by a health professional, be it your veterinarian or a human MD. I don’t mean to put you on the spot, but I was reading. I think it was on Facebook. There’s something called an Endovra heating pad. Did you ever hear of that?
What is that?
The whole gist of the story was that they had an arthritic small dog. They said, “What we don’t consider is heat. Sometimes, heat on a joint makes you feel so much better.” They did their own little experiment with their own dog. It was a Bichon and probably had a hip flexion problem, like Perthes disease. I thought about that. I thought it is like when you’re sore, and you put a little low heat. I’m not telling you to use a heating pad on your pet. This Endovra heating pad apparently magnifies the patient’s own heat.
It reflects body heat to the joints with no electricity or cords.
That made sense to me. Maybe I’m going down a rabbit hole with that, too.
Heat Therapy Vs. Ice For Arthritic Joints
I recommend it all the time. It’s also important to realize that there are stages to arthritis in dogs. You sometimes have a dog that has an injury where you need ice. That could be maybe when there’s an acute injury. For example, I’m thinking of a cruciate or an ACL tear in a dog. When that first happens, that’s a juicy joint. It is sore. It is swollen. It’s hot. That is ice all the way. What happens over time is that you’ve either gotten surgery or the knee has stabilized itself, and you’ve done some rehab. You have a senior. That joint is arthritic. It’s arthritic and inflamed in a different way.
It’s when you have a lot more like bone-on-bone contact. You also have a lot more inflammation associated with this synovium and other things. It seems like as they get there, and you start to get all that vet talk, I would say to an owner, when you have these joints that are creaky, and you can see the stiffness, the heat is a good idea. I like the idea of using a heating device. I would never recommend a heat pad because I don’t want to burn skin. I love those little lavender eye pillows that people get because they’re not too heavy. They go around the joints. You could put it on your dog’s neck. They don’t get too hot. They smell good.
They’re great for styes in your eye.
Those are my go-tos that I typically tell people to do.
Only because I didn’t know what it was, I looked up undenatured collagen supplements. It’s derived from chicken sternum cartilage. It’s fascinating. It’s interesting. We’re looking for physical changes and behavioral changes in the pet. When you see improvement, what is it like for the pet?
They have more pep in their step. They want to grab their leash and go for walks. They don’t want to go pull. They’re walking for more steps. I have pet parents, and now they’re not very accurate, but sometimes, we’ll use a pedometer. There is some error with those, and they’re not perfect. They’re not great for scientific studies, but they’re good for home use.
Their dog is walking farther with more vitality. It just snowed, and it’s cold out. They had tons of energy and wanted to do their walk. I teach people to start doing exercises with dogs. All of my pet parents know how to do exercises. They know how to actively stretch out their dog. They know how to massage, ice, and heat. I heard of one dog. His exercise is improving and he will start barking. He’s like, “Time. Do exercises. I’m ready, Mom.”
I bet he got a treat after that.
It’s all very positive when we do it. It’s funny. I’ve worked in rehab since 2013 or 2014, but I’ve now come to realize so much of rehab is behavior because you have to suss out what is a behavior versus a pain, how to train dogs, and how to always do low-stress handling. There’s so much that you have to do as a rehab veterinarian because you’re not going to be able to get in and massage your dog if they’re not relaxed and if they’re not calm. There’s a lot of stress handling and a lot of training, too.
Teaching Pet Owners Basic Massage & Home Care
Do you teach a lot of pet owners how to do massages? Is that hard to do?
No.
Hard to teach?
Not at all. It’s one of the best things that people can learn how to do. I’m not anything special. I do rehab, but there are people online who are dog masseuses, massage people who are accredited, and do a good job of sharing their techniques. I teach the basics. How to approach a dog? How do you move it to a state of being more aroused to be relaxed? For example, take your hands and do big circles on their chest to calm them down. Turn down the lights. Remove the distractions. Add a diffuser and some essential oils.
You could play through a dog’s ear, which is a calming soundtrack you could find. You start like that. You start with smaller movements. You go to the painful area, and you could have a stroke. You could do a little bit of kneading. You could do a tapping if you like, but most dogs don’t like that. There are a lot of different techniques that people could use to massage their dogs at home.
There are many techniques people can use to massage their dogs at home. It’s a great way to help your dog feel good and strengthen your bond. Share on XI teach it because it’s a great way to make your dog feel good and also to bond with your dog. Especially at night, everybody’s tired. It’s sitting in your lap. You could do a little dog massage. Make my dog feel good. It’s teaching the pet parents where the body parts are. The knee is not the front end.
It’s the wrist. It sounds like you may be able to not use as much drug therapy when you can use some of the massage therapy, too. A lot of it is, “Can’t I give him a pill and make him feel better?” Yes, but those pills have side effects, too.
You probably felt the same way about doing derm and thinking about feeding clean diets or making clean clothes. It’s how you could change so many things without having to turn to steroids or to other things. Everything’s multimodal is what I’m trying to say, too. Dermatology is where you have to control your diet. You’d have to control the environment. You have to have good flea and tick medication or gut health, even. All those things go together to manage a dog’s allergies and how they’re doing. It’s the same thing with our older dogs that are painful and slowing down.
When I think about arthritis, I say, “I have a bunch of little errors around me.” I think about joint supplements, muscle supplements, weight loss, exercise, and pharmaceuticals, but also other things, such as cold laser, and then also changing their home. Making sure they’re standing on an anti-fatigue mat under their bowl. All those things go together to make the dog feel better. A lot of it, people don’t realize they can do it for free at home.
Sometimes, when people have consultations with me, finding a rehab vet is not that easy. There aren’t that many of us out there, even though there are more and more all the time, but it’s not as many as a general practitioner. Sometimes, they’ll get a consultation for me because they’ve come from far away or there’s an affordability issue. I say to them, “Have a consultation. I will teach you how to do some of this basic stuff. You can do a lot of this stuff for free at home by yourself. Exercises are free. It’s just your time.”
I had quite a few owners who would sleep downstairs on the floor with their pet as the pet got older, because it was satisfying for both parties involved. I was going to ask you. Did you ever have any pet owners who put in the stair climbers for the pet, where you’re sitting on the thing?
The best I ever had was a little Chihuahua. It was back when I lived in San Francisco. We had these three-story Victorian house calls on. The tiny little dog was expected to go up a gigantic number of stairs. The stairs were from a 1910 house. They were very steep. They got a custom-made dog ramp that went right next to the stairs with fake grass on it. They have lighting. She got a little grass. She’d go zoom up in and then look at everybody else like, “You humans are taking a lot off.”
I remember it was a simple thing when our Dexie was nineteen and a half. When cats get older, they stop grooming. I would take the unscented water wipes and wipe her down. It was like she’d gone to a spa. She felt cleaner. She felt fresher.
Janet, that’s a good point because I don’t think people check that butt end enough on older pets.
Nobody wants to check the butt end.
I do. It doesn’t bother me.
Dr. Fishman, as vets, we’ve seen the rectal area caked with poop and hair. No poop could come out because nobody looked back there.
I have a weird thing for you two veterinarians. Every time Libby, our Golden Retriever, gets into the captain’s seat in my back seat, and it must be the way that the seat is formed, her anal glands express. I’m not kidding you. We’ll be driving to go for a walk. We’re like, “Yes, there they went.” The car stinks. I have to come home and clean it with that Nature’s Miracle, whatever it’s called. I am telling you. It’s got to be a configuration that makes her little cheeks go.
Maybe she’s nervous.
I don’t know. She gets in the car a lot, but it’s become a joke.
If I see anal gland problems, I’m like, “No.”
I only deal with impacted ones. If they release it, I’ll be happy.
I did hear, and maybe you know, Alice, that feeding a lot of psyllium can help and probiotics.
Fiber.
Maybe she needs fiber.
I have a big container, and Janet takes it, too, of Fiber One cereal. The squiggly, not the flakes. It’s that or psyllium, or the latest thing. Janet and I are constantly in search of a good price for Fiber One.
It’s so expensive.
TBS is too high. Janet’s GI doctor, not to get personal, advised. I said to Janet, “Who told you about it first?”
Guess who’s allergic to psyllium?
You’re allergic to psyllium.
They put me on psyllium and I was on it for a week. I had a head to toe body rash. Remember, Al?
No, I don’t remember.
It was bad. It’s rare, but it comes from tree bark.
Fiber is fabulous. The microbiome is the big hot topic now, but I’ve had to regress. I remember seeing a police dog that was very greasy and yeasty. I put him on the standard hypoallergenic diet like we’re all told. He got worse. Do you know what I did? I put him on high fiber. It dried up all that oil. He was like a new dog. Sometimes, you’ve got to use the noggin and not do as you’re told.
My human gastro is interesting. The human gastro said to me, “Everyone’s all about supplements and probiotics. Fiber is disregarded. It’s as important as taking a supplement.” I eat that crappy twig stuff every day.
It’s like the new protein rage. Next, it will be fiber.
We just need to make a good fiber, if anyone out there wants to give me a percentage of their company. A little fiber for dogs, a little psyllium thing. I’m not sure, Alice, if you saw this study about dogs with stress colitis. They compared metronidazole.
We had Dr. Rudinsky on talking about it.
You guys are already pros. That’s what I do. For example, if I had to use swimming therapy with them, underwater treadmill or any anything like that. We don’t want them to go number two and they get a little stress colitis, a little stress area or a nervous belly. I will have the pet parents start a psyllium husk a couple of days before. It’s all anecdotal, and I don’t have many dogs but it 100% works.
One of the things I’ll never forget when I talk about food allergy on webinars, shows, and stuff, you’ll love this, Dr. Fishman. You’ll be in the room with a Boxer. The owners chuckle. I’m like, “This isn’t funny because something’s going on here. Your dog is not utilizing everything it’s taking in. How would you like to be that gassy?”
Indications & Benefits Of Underwater Treadmill Therapy
I get that they’re laughing about it because they’re nervous and embarrassed, but it’s a problem. We either need to look at what’s going on in there or add more fiber. Nine out of ten times, it is the fiber issue. I wanted to ask you about the treadmill. Do you use that? Is that mainly for stifle joints for cruciate or hips? What’s the indication for an underwater treadmill?
A couple of things I use it on. I use it on my patients who just had spinal surgery or for some other reason, can’t walk at all. It is a great way to try to build back strength in dogs without any strength at all. One of the things I learned, and this was not necessarily proven, but what an old neurologist said to me when I was at UF.
A treadmill is a great way to help build back strength in dogs that have little to no strength at all. Share on XIs that Dr. Fender?
No.
Sorry, Dr. Fender. I love you. Not that you’re old.
I’m blanking the doctor’s name. What he said was sometimes, if you have a dog that can’t walk at all, say they have the ability to move. They have motor function, but they can’t move at all. They just had spinal surgery. They could start to swim first. I’ll put them in the water with a vest. I start to do a little bit of stimulation to their tail. For some reason, out of nowhere, they’ll start paddling, doing a doggy paddle.
That’s a great way to use it. As those dogs are so weak, they can’t walk at all. They’re in a cart. I put them in the water, and then they can walk. It’s a great way to get them to walk again and build strength. The other top two that I like are dogs with hip issues. We could use the water at a certain level and speed of the treadmill to fully extend the hip. This is a good way to move the hip in a very functional way to get extension. The other thing is one of my patients. His name’s Conrad. He’s a senior. He’s about a nine-year-old silver Lab.
He’s huge like a gigantic Lab. He’s too big for a Lab but he has arthritis. He’s had both of his knees done. His spine is full of arthritis. His hips, his elbows, his feet, everything has arthritis. What I do is I put him in the tank. I fill it up to right above his shoulders. I put the jets on. The water that we use in rehab is like those pools at the gym that people work out in. It’s warm. He sits there and floats. The jets are on. He catches his balls. He’s happy. Those are the things I personally use my treadmill for. There are a lot of different ways to do that we’ve learned in rehab school, but those are what I use mostly.
That is so cool. I graduated a long time ago, way before you. We didn’t talk at all about rehab. That’s so sad.
No one did. Physical therapy for humans wasn’t heard of. My husband’s father was a physician. He was like, “Physical therapy is old school.” Honest to God, it has saved my life so many times. There wasn’t a belief in it.
It was an area never looked into. When you think about it now, I love that in veterinary medicine, we’re not quick to give a steroid injection into a joint. If you and I went to the doctor now, complaining about your elbow, we would investigate and work through it instead of “We’ll give this and then call me in two months.” I’m very proud of our profession for that because it’s like, Dr. Fishman, when people say, “What causes cancer?” I don’t think people have the time to ask their human MD that because they’re in and out so quickly, but we’re expected to address that.
The other thing is if someone had a steroid injection and then some other stuff in my shoulder. The difference is that when I have a dog, and I want to start talking about putting stuff in the joints. Certainly, I do reach for steroids when we have an old, creaky arthritic joint so they feel good. I can also talk to someone who has a four-year-old Lab. I could say I have PRP. I have stem cells. I have other things.
Spryng is another company that’s doing a lot of biologics. That’s one of the areas where as far as new medicines, because a lot of that regulatory pressure is off our backs. We can get things a lot more affordable where I can give people a PRP injection for $300. Versus when I talk to my doctor about it, he’s like, “Your insurance isn’t going to cover it. It’s $1,000.”
What’s cool? What’s coming up? What do you see in the future of pet rehab?
PRP for sure.
That’s a good one. There’s a lot of regenerative medicine. We want to try to start in midlife or middle age. We’ve realized based on what happens with people if they could be preventative. If you can start keeping your dog strong as an adult, they’re going to be less frail later on. There were a million ways to do that, such as nutrition, exercise, and keeping them lean.
If you can be proactive and keep your dog strong starting in adulthood, they’ll be less frail later on. Share on XWe know these things exist that you could do as a preventative in middle age to make your dog live longer and feel better. That’s certainly that. Part of that prevention is like we were talking about, all of these regenerative techniques we have from the stem cells to the PRP that they don’t have necessarily in human medicine as much. That’s the big one.
Do you see many cats? Cats hate leaving the house. Do you see many cats in your office? It’s tough for them.
When I started Strut, I moved away from a clinic. I do everything at home. I could pull off my car. It has an exercise pen in it. It has dog jumps, my acupuncture machine and my laser. I bring everything. I also rent an underwater treadmill from a local veterinary hospital that wasn’t using theirs. I will do underwater treadmill sessions for the dogs who need it. Probably about 5% of my caseload is kitties. They’re arthritic. They just need acupuncture for ten minutes.
Will they lie there while you’re doing it?
Yes. If you have a good cat patient that likes acupuncture, it’s your best patient. They are loving and compliant. They sit like a little loaf. They’re awake. They don’t ever fall asleep like a dog does because it’s not their type. They tell you when you’re done. They’re not like a dog. They look at you. They’re like, “I’m done,” or they get up or move. You’re like, “Cat’s done.”
Not in this house.
They certainly pick their sessions. Cold lasers are great for them, too.
Talk about cold lasers because that’s something we never learned about in vet school. Did you learn about it in vet school or after vet school?
I learned about it technically from vet school. They’ve gotten away from saying cold laser. I don’t know why. It doesn’t matter.
It’s because people assume the laser was hot.
What’s happened is everybody’s in this vanity kick where you all know about lasers. I’m not so hot because I’m on her face. It’s like those masks now, which is worth having. It’s not a laser. It’s light therapy.
It’s that red thing.
A laser is a wavelength of light that has been proven to activate the mitochondria. Activating the mitochondria helps to speed up healing. It’s good if you have a non-healing chronic wound and you do a cold laser. It helps to improve wound healing and improve the wound overall. That’s the way it generally works. For some reason, it is not completely and fully understood. If you apply the cold laser to arthritic joints, it helps to relieve the pain.
Also, they don’t understand chiropractic or joint manipulation. A chiropractor moves a joint in a forceful manner, with the point of making a noise. It’s the strongest rate of movement. Physical therapists will mobilize a joint in a gentler way with the goal of relieving pain and then increasing movement in the joint.
We don’t know how that works. It’s a mystery. In moving a joint that’s supposed to be arthritic and sore, why is moving that so helpful and feels so good? It’s a little bit of something we don’t 100% understand. The whole mechanism of lasers is not known, but it helps for sure a lot with skin stuff and with painful arthritic joints.
The only thing I can think of about the moving of the joint is in case you have nerve entrapment. That would take care of that. As a dermatologist, that’s my two cents. I have no clue. It’s fascinating to me, though. You read so much new about it all the time. I love that all this information is being uncovered that could help not only people, but especially pets. I’m getting one of my Goldens.
The fascia is going to be the next thing. A giant book came that I ordered. It’s the dog and horse fascial system.
I bet you do a lot of horses. Remember in vet school, they told you horses are four legs in a uterus because those are the areas they have problems with. Do you do a lot of horses, Dr. Kelly?
No. When I was at UF, I would go to the farm one day a week and do acupuncture for horses. I live in this area of Pennsylvania, right by Bolton, UPenn’s vet school. There are a lot of good horse veterinarians out here who do acupuncture. I leave it to them.
I don’t blame you. I’ll tell you, to keep up with horse medicine, there’s a lot new going on with that, too. It’s so hard to stay up on everything.
You folks have a lot of different animals to take care of like birds, dogs, cats, and lots of species. Dr. Fishman, I got to ask you the question. We ask all of our guests, what is your pet peeve? It can be about humans. It can be about pets.
It’s saying age as the disease. That gets me.
When I go to a human doctor, I’ll say there are two three-letter words you can’t use, which are age and old, out of your vocabulary. They look at that numerical age.
It’s like, “He’s slowing down because he’s old or she’s not playing with us anymore because she’s old.” Have you checked out the dog? Is it painful? Is the cat weak? What’s going on?
That’s a cop out. Don’t you think?
It is. I don’t think any of us veterinarians do this but if I’ve heard someone say, “Your dog’s getting older. That’s just how it is,” and then not offering anything. As you said earlier, Alice. I hope pet parents are aware from me coming to these shows and talking about this. Know that there are rehab vets out there. This is what we do. You want to make your dog or cat feel better. There’s so much you could do. It doesn’t have to cost tons and tons of money.
That’s the thing. It doesn’t. I’m helping out what’s called the Silver Snout Senior Dog Rescue. They have all these teeny little dogs whose owners died or went into a nursing home. They’re allowed to live out their lives there. They can be adopted out. There are some tripods there. There’s one that came in so mad that they are still working on it. They have to give her a sedative to try to clip the hair. I’m trying to help them get things less expensive than what they’re paying for something. They don’t know, as you said, Kelly. Sometimes, it takes talking to one or two other people to gain the knowledge that, “I can do thisor I can do this for less.” There are always possibilities.
A lot of us veterinarians, for a long time, are like, “This is the way you should do it.” Now, it’s understanding and offering that spectrum of care. We have a lot of different options. There are a lot of different things that people could do.
Offering a spectrum of care means we have many different options and a lot of things people can do—and that’s all valuable. Share on XGetting back to the supplement thing, they need to go by the recommendations of their veterinarian or health professional because there’s too much crap out there. Before coming on, I saw on one of my human medical pages that one of the supplements has been recalled because it has meloxicam in it. Meloxicam is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory. This was a human supplement. Meloxicam can cause strokes in humans and heart disease.
I was on it.
There you go. Back to you again.
In one of my surgeries, I was on meloxicam. I felt like crap on it.
This is why you want to stick with a company that either your veterinarian recommends or that’s NASC-approved or ConsumerLab-approved, and with some evidence behind it.
One of my favorite quotes is, “It’s an attitude, not an age.”
The Danger Of Supplement Marketing & Importance Of Evidence-Based Products
A catitude. The second thing is that it’s just hard. It’s not people’s fault because if you think about the marketing that has gone behind a product, a lot of times, they’ve spent no money on proving that the supplement works. Which costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time, but they have great Instagram ads.
I had one of my pet parents whom I’ve worked with for over a year. She sent me the picture of the supplement. She’s like, “Do you think this works?” It was three pages all about, “I’m going to fix your dog. The dog has weakness, and a dog does this.” It had all these crazy claims that I was like, “What is it?”
They have never seen the pet.
They went to look at what the supplement is. It gave me a bunch of papers that weren’t even in dogs. I’d say, “When you look at these supplements, what are the papers on? If you looked at them, and nothing was in a dog or a cat, don’t use it. What are you trying to do?” She’s like, “I’m trying to build strength in my dog.” I was like, “You exercise. There are muscle supplements. Build muscle mass. We can fix that. It’s not this weird dropper thing that you take two times, and it’s a miracle work.”
Plus, if it worked, we’d know about it. I love that clients are trying to help their pet. I would get the Tupperware container of all the meds and supplements that the patient’s on. They’re not working because they’re coming to see me for an allergy or skin issue. Same with you with rehab and joint issues. You’ve got to give them credit. They’re trying to help. They just need to be steered in the right direction of education.
Don’t forget, folks, you have influencers who are making money from those companies.
How come every day I’m seeing an influencer dead at age 35? I don’t know everything.
Let me ask.
It’s powerful. I get influenced by everything. I’m sitting there, and I have to tell my partner. I’m like, “I think I need this pan.” I’m so gullible. I’m very susceptible to marketing. I’m ordering all these things. It’s crummy because then your phone is listening to you. Two days later, when you’ve forgotten about it, it’s like, “There’s a sale on that thing.”
You’re ordering those pots and pans full of lead or something.
At 2:00 AM, there’s a lot of ordering going on.
I was at a memorial service and I got my cell phone in my pocket. The woman next to me had this super cute handbag. It was one of those Spartina.
It’s out of South Carolina.
I was like, “That’s so cute.” She goes, “It’s Spartina.” The next day, that showed up in my Facebook feed. I’m telling you. It was listening. My girlfriend took her cell phone and was whispering, “Angel Chardonnay,” or whatever it was, because she wanted to get a deal on it. Honest to God, it was listening to me.
I did try to do that with my boyfriend, where I was like, “Emerald ring.”
“Four-carat yellow gold.”
Kelly, what pets do you have?
I have one cat named Nelson. He’s probably somewhere in my office.
What color is he?
He’s all white. He was white when he was a baby. That gray faded, and he’s all white. He has arthritis. I have him in Solensia. He refuses to take fish oil. He will not take it. I tried. Some cats are fine with it. I tried to do a CBD, ElleVet. It’s a good, high-quality CBD that has evidence and is proven. He refuses to eat it. I have him on Fortetropin. Myos Pet makes a feline product that has been shown to build lean muscle in cats with kidney disease.
Is it flavored?
It’s not. It smells very fishy. In addition to arthritis, he has stage one kidney disease. I also have him on the Fortetropin, which I was worried about because I was like, “Is Fortetropin, which is from fertilized egg yolks, going to ping his kidney values?” I was glad they looked at the numbers in stage one and stage two. They are going to investigate it more. What they did was look at stage one and stage two cats with kidney disease and fed them the Fortetropin. They didn’t see any worsening of their kidney values.
I don’t have him on a kidney diet. Maybe putting more supplements on it or giving him supplements would change if I had him on the kidney diet, but I don’t. I have him on his kidney food. I do the Fortetropin, the Myos Pet. I sprinkle it on top of there for his muscle. He’s very well muscled. I do the Solensia, which I started because I was waiting as long as possible to use it. He started to need it because he was having problems jumping, I noticed.
Is that a monoclonal antibody?
Yes.
What about that liquid martini I give my cats, isn’t that for their kidneys?
Janet has hers on Hydra Care by Purina. Tell her about that, Janet.
I started it because another vet that we had on was talking about how they don’t get enough water, kidneys, and all that.
Dr. Debbie Greco was on it.
I have two cats that are in and out all day long. They’re killers.
They’re addicted to it.
They look like an olive. It’s like a martini. They only get kibble.
My cat, being Nelson, refuses to drink water to the point where it was a year, and he didn’t drink any water. I was like, “Why hasn’t he passed away? This is very disturbing.”
He’s not a drinker.
What I do is I use Hydra Care.
It tastes like liver, I guess.
I’m not tasting it.
I have to put sugar in Nelson’s. Otherwise, he refuses to drink it.
It sounds like a great product. They’re using that in place of Sub Q fluids. Anything in place of Sub Q fluids in my book is fabulous.
I am a big fan of that too. I did ask one of the reps about it. They’re like, “It helps with everyday hydration. If you’re dehydrated acutely and you need to replenish, it won’t work.”
You can’t over-hydrate with it.
That’s what I do with Nelson because he’s a bad drinker. As you said, Janet, these kitties will not drink but I like that you call it a kitty martini.
Here’s the thing. I have to start giving it randomly because they’re getting very demanding for it. I’m telling you it’s an addiction here.
It’s like that Hart to Hart episode where they had the addictive stuff in Freeway’s food. Nobody remembers that.
He became Atticus, who can’t stand me. He’s the male cat. He was coming up to me, like, “Where is it?” I finally said, “You’re going to take a little breakie poo from this.”
Janet’s cats are also on the LiveClear diet. Her family is cat-allergic. It reduces the allergenicity by 40%. It’s fabulous. Personally, I don’t think they ever marketed that well because you don’t hear about it anymore.
It works in my house. It’s amazing.
That’s great if that could keep a cat in the home where someone has an allergy. I’ve heard about that food. I’ve never heard of anyone using it. I’m glad to know it works. That’s great.
Kelly, this has been so informative. Thank you so much.
It’s so nice to meet you. I’m a fan now.
I’d love to come back. We could talk more.
I would love that.
You have a 415-area code which is coveted in the Bay Area. I had one. You can’t get them anymore.
I moved to Pennsylvania a few years ago. I started my vet clinic in the San Francisco area right before the pandemic. After working, I worked in big rehab centers. Right before 2020, I was like, “I want to start doing my own thing.” I started being mobile. I got my 415 number. When I moved my business to Pennsylvania, I brought my number with me.
Was your business mobile?
Yes, but I served San Francisco all the way down to Palo Alto.
I lived in Menlo Park.
I had a cute little Frenchie. This Frenchie lived in Menlo Park. I had a lot of dogs in the Bay Area. I still have a couple of patients who want to maintain fitness programs. I do virtual fitness programs with them. It’s about half an hour of dog exercise. Parents lead the dog exercise. I don’t do it for any new clients. It’s dogs that I’ve known and worked with for years.
Kelly, thank you. This has been a pleasure.
Thank you.
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About Kelly Fishman
Dr. Kelly Fishman, DVM, CVA, CCRT, is a leader in the field of veterinary sports medicine and physical rehabilitation. As the founder of Strut Animal Mobility Specialists and a veterinary advisory board member at MYOS PET, she has dedicated her career to enhancing the quality of life for animals through her integrative approach, combining nutrition, fitness, and state-of-the-art therapy methods and tools that improve the long-term health, mobility, and well-being of dogs and cats. Her primary focus is to equip pet parents with the knowledge and tools they need to help their animals live longer, healthier, and happier lives.
Dr. Fishman specializes in helping animals recover from traumatic injuries and surgeries, excel in canine sports and competitions, and maintain optimal mobility and comfort during every stage of their lives. Through her work, she continues to set new standards in veterinary care, earning her recognition as a trusted leader and advocate for animal health. Dr. Fishman earned her undergraduate degree from the University of California, Berkeley, completed her veterinary degree at Ross University, College of Veterinary Medicine, and honed her skills during an internship at the prestigious University of Florida, College of Veterinary Medicine. As a Certified Veterinary Acupuncturist (CVA) and a Certified Canine Rehabilitation Therapist (CCRT), Dr. Fishman has advanced expertise in pain management, mobility, rehabilitation, and sports medicine for animals.