Planning for your future is responsible, but have you considered who will care for your furry family members if you are suddenly unable to? Today, host Dr. Alice joins attorney Nolan James to tackle the critical, often overlooked topic: What You Can Do Legally To Provide For Your Pets.
While most pet owners consider their companions family, the law views them as property—making proactive planning essential. From setting up pet trusts to designating a “backup to the backup” in your durable power of attorney, this discussion demystifies the steps you need to take to ensure your pets are never left in limbo. Whether you’re a parent to a rescue dog, a senior cat owner, or a hobby farmer, learn why “hope” isn’t an estate plan and discover the practical steps—like wallet cards and clear care instructions—that can guarantee your pet’s routine, health, and happiness remain uninterrupted, no matter what life throws your way.
Don’t leave your pet’s future to chance. Read on for expert legal advice on securing the care your best friend deserves.
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What You Can Do Legally To Provide For Your Pets! With Attorney Nolan James
Welcome to the show. I am hosting solo today because my lovely co-host, Janet Novotny-King, had a little dental work, and she has got the cold pack on there and all the Novocain. She has a doctor’s excuse for today. Anyway, you all know that I volunteer at Silver Snout Senior Dog Rescue. Let me tell you, the majority of those little senior geriatric dogs that are there because their owners either went into the hospital, went into hospice, or, unfortunately, passed away, and thought that relatives would take care of their beloved pet.
I am here to tell you that the majority of the time, that does not happen. I have invited Nolan James, my favorite attorney, to come on and help us prepare if something were to happen to us, either fatally or just going into the hospital, and what have you. What can we do to protect our pets? Just real quick, a few things about Nolan. He is a University of Akron grad. Go Zips is right. I do not want to embarrass him, but according to the Cleveland Business Journal, he is one of the people on the move in Cleveland, Ohio. Welcome to the show, Nolan James. I’m happy to have you.
Thank you, Alice.
I did not mean to embarrass you with that, but I just think it is a fun thing.
On the move, you know, but I tell people I am easy to find. I appreciate you inviting me here to have a little chat. Thank you, Alice.
Having said that about these seniors, and I can tell you, Nolan, it is so traumatic for these little old dogs to be away from the owners who slept in bed with them and had wonderful care. Now they are in a place with barking dogs, and thankfully, our rescue takes them out of that environment. We need to have a few tips on what we can do, like in our will or in our trust. What can we do? What is the number one thing you would recommend? I have two dogs. Something would happen to me.
Understanding The Legal Status Of Pets As Property
Alice, you framed it perfectly. I think you have experienced it, but most people do not know, and they do not really think about it the way that you are experiencing it. Most pet owners would agree, and they consider their pets to be family. From a legal perspective, pets are treated as property. Because of that, you have to plan. It is a bit crude to think about planning for pets the same way you would plan for other property. You have to plan for pets the same way that you plan for property, subject to a lot of different nuances.
When you ask the biggest thing that someone can do, think about what happens not only if I die, but what if I just get hurt and I am not at home when I am hurt. Having a written plan, ideally having that written plan prepared by someone like me, but at a minimum, writing down the plan, making sure that you have got, especially as people get older, having a little card in your wallet that says, “I have a pet at my house. This is my home address. This is the pet that resides in my home.
By the way, Fido sleeps in my bed and is terribly afraid of thunderstorms.” Those little things. That is the basic stuff. There are a lot of other things that I am sure we will talk about that we can touch on. The biggest risk, as you mentioned, if you do not plan, your pet will wind up in some sort of shelter. They are accustomed to sleeping in your bed every night and eating the food that you prepare. They are used to your routine. Pets experience anxiety just like humans do.
Pets experience anxiety just like humans. To ease it, put a plan in place and build a support team around them. Share on XBuilding A Reliable Care Team
If you want to alleviate that anxiety, put a plan in place and build a team. Your team is your family, but talking to your family. A lot of people just assume, “My kids love the dog. If something happens to me, they are going to figure it out.” Because they love the dog, that does not necessarily mean that they are capable of actually being responsible for the dog. It does not mean that they have the financial wherewithal to care for the dog as that dog ages.
Health care costs for animals, just like humans, get more expensive as the animal ages as well. I know I said a lot, I will synthesize it a little bit, and to say, the first thing, you have got a plan. You have got to think through some of the basics. The who, and then we can talk about the legal mechanisms that we have in place that can help people plan for their animal when the time comes.
One thing, after my husband and I updated our trust with you recently, I did not think about it. When you have a will or a trust, you forget what you said in that. On that same note, people’s circumstances change. You might be leaving your dog to your daughter. You thought about that two years ago, but now your daughter has an infant. Maybe your dog is not good around children. Maybe now your cat is diabetic. As you said, it is a great idea to carry in your wallet, “This is Fluffy, she needs insulin once a day. This is her vet with the vet’s number.” As a vet, I can tell you, we have come to the rescue of many dogs and cats that were in situations like that. Having said that, it is a great idea to update things, even maybe from two years ago.
I agree. Things should be on that. Certainly, updating things regularly. It is good to take stock of the decisions that you have made annually. If you have estate planning documents in place, it is a good process to just look at them and think about them and think through whether these plans that you made a year ago still make sense. If they need to be tweaked slightly, tweak them. That is okay. The other thing that is important is to make sure that every plan has a backup. “We plan for Fluffy to be cared for by our daughter, but what if something happens to her? What if she has some injury and cannot care for the dog, or decides that she just does not want to?”
Who is the backup? Who is the backup to the backup? Having these conversations and coming up with as detailed instructions and contingency plans as humanly possible, that is certainly the best approach. Mentioning your unique role as a vet, I often tell you that vets are on the front line with knowing whether, not only how the pet is doing, but how the human is doing too.
When you see someone bring in their pet for a routine checkup, maybe engage in those conversations, “Are you doing okay?” It is a bit delicate to broach that, but listen, if the human is not doing great, it is more important to make sure that the human has gotten their affairs in order to make sure that they are not going to have this animal just end up in limbo.
It is funny you said that, Nolan, because that actually happened to me. I was friends with an elderly couple, as most of my clients became my friends. The gentleman passed away, the husband and the wife had a lingering lung disease, and they had a little poodle. She had a daughter, and she said, “Dr. Alice, if something happens to me, I’ve put it in my will that I want you to take care of the dog.” Every six months, she would give me an update, but I have to tell you the funny thing about this.
One time, I was at the specialty hospital, and I walked in, and there was this screaming. These two poodles were just, you cannot even hear yourself think. I thought, “Who is that?” It was those people. It was my client. All I could think of was my husband because we have these dogs here that never bark. The two poodles, the one that was being left to me was the one that was the mouthy one. Anyway, that is a story. You are absolutely right. We as veterinarians, we do know. I remember having a young man, and he was single, a bit of a loner.
He had a dog that received a long-acting medication from his regular vet and had an adverse reaction to it. The dog really never came out of it, and the dog died. This is the opposite of what we are talking about. I was very worried about this man. I called him every day to see how he was doing because this dog was everything to him. I knew he planned for that dog’s future. Sadly, the dog cannot plan for his future because I really thought he was going to commit suicide. I really did. It works both ways, really, when you look at it.
It does. You kind of touched on something, too. A lot of people think about planning for pets, “I need to have some language in my will, or I need to set up a pet trust.” To do it appropriately, you need to think about your pet in a lot of different estate planning buckets. Think about what you want to happen if you are permanently disabled. That is not necessarily going to need to be in a trust document.
Many people think about planning for pets in narrow terms—adding language to a will or setting up a pet trust. But proper planning requires considering your pet across multiple estate planning categories. Share on XThat could be in a healthcare power of attorney or could be in a durable financial power of attorney. You can have language that provides for the care of your pet. I would say between those two, the best place would certainly be the durable financial power of attorney, frankly, in the event that someone is still living and they want to provide financial wherewithal, but they also want to provide authorization for someone who does not have custody or legal title against this property, pets are property, legal title to a particular pet.
They want to make sure that there is language in their durable financial power of attorney that a designated caregiver of this pet can resume care and can use funds to pay for whatever the pet may need. The other thing that people want to think about putting into these actual pet trust documents is what types of care do we want these animals to have towards the end of their lives? That is the other thing. Just like humans, as we are nearing the end of life, what degree of care, how do we define excessive care, those types of things as well.
I see what you mean.
It is possible with that as well.
Do they want to say, “I pass away, and Sandy takes my dog to the vet, did I want her to say, ‘I want you to do everything possible to save this pet?’” As opposed to if it is a terminal disease, euthanasia. I thought about.
You want to be as specific as possible. A lot of times when I meet with clients, and we are dealing with pets, every pet is different, and every animal is different. There are exotic animals, there are horses, there are birds, and we have dealt with tortoises. Things that have these longer lifespans it gets a lot more complicated to make sure that we are planning for the financial wherewithal for that animal. Certainly, making sure we have contingencies for where those animals are going to be housed. In the event that we run through the people that we think about.
We see it a lot when we are planning for horses in particular, there are certain boarding facilities that owners like, “No way would I ever want my horse there. ” We just need to know because I, as the planner, am not a horse expert, so I do not know the difference between one boarding facility and another. I just know where my clients live, and I can make some recommendations based on places that are not too far. The clients and the pet owners are the experts in this situation with respect to the type of care that they want their animal to receive, and obviously, in consultation with their veterinarian providers. That is another thing we just want to make sure that pet owners are thinking through.
What about money? Do you advise people to leave a certain amount of money because you do not know how long this pet is going to live?
Yes. You certainly should. It is probably a good idea to consult with your vet to help you know what the cost of care will be. Certainly consult with your financial advisor so that you can make sure that you are able to care for your own needs towards the end of your life and are not setting aside way too much for your pet beyond what your pet would actually need.
The other thing, some folks go a little overboard with respect to leaving too much. Ohio courts and I can speak to Ohio courts and Florida courts, some licensed in both Ohio and Florida. They will apply reasonable standards to what is left for pets. If you do leave an excessive amount, courts can interpret a pet trust document in the event that a party petitions the court and asks the court to do so. There is that Leona Helmsley.
I was going to ask you about that. That was contested, wasn’t it?
Applying The “Reasonableness” Standard To Pet Trusts
It was contested. In that case, Leona Helmsley left, I think it was $12 million for her. What type of dogs did she have? What was it? Do you remember?
It was like a Shih Tzu or something, but I could be wrong.
We will call it a Shih Tzu, but they were fake. I think the dog was Trouble. The dog’s name was Trouble. She left $12 million to Trouble in a pet trust, and she disinherited some other family members. Those family members petitioned the court and said that this gift was excessive for a dog. The court did agree that it was excessive, and they reduced the amount of funds left to Trouble or left for the care of Trouble to $2 million. Ultimately, the remainder, so the excess over that $2 million, ended up flowing into the charitable foundation that she set up.
It did not go to the people who petitioned. Now, I will say that those individuals who petitioned did end up getting funds that they otherwise would not have gotten. There was some settlement involved in there and some other horse trading, pun intended. That is what happened in that particular case. That was a New York case. I would say courts generally do apply a reasonableness standard to what you are leaving. Certainly, consult with your professionals, financial advisors, and the vet to make sure that whatever you are leaving is defensible. Otherwise, funds may go someplace that you do not necessarily intend to go.
What happens when I say I have pet insurance and it is my name protecting my Fluffy, and then I pass away, or I am in hospice, and so I put in my will for my neighbor to take the dog? Does the pet insurance ownership need to change, or does that still stay for that pet?
Reviewing Pet Insurance Policies For Transferability
I just want to make sure I am understanding the question correctly. You purchase a pet insurance policy for a particular pet for veterinary costs. You purchase pet insurance for a particular pet. At the end of the day, every policy is written differently, so that is it is important to understand how that policy is written. If a policy is written for a specific pet, and so long as those premiums are being paid, if the language of that policy indicates that it is transferable and it is contingent upon premiums being paid, then your death would not necessarily cause any major issue or interruption on that policy still being enforced, so long as those premiums were paid.
These people are getting pet insurance because there is an explosion of pet insurance companies. When they are signing this, they should be sure that it is transferable to a new owner, but it is the same dog, should something happen to you?
Correct. You should. With this pet insurance, you want to make sure that your desired providers are going to accept that policy. I do not think it just gives you the owner’s cash. There are likely conditions on these are the providers you can go to, and this is what your coverage will provide for. These procedures are excluded. Doing the math and making sure that what you are intending the policy to do will actually work for you, and you are not going to come out of pocket for funds that you didn’t anticipate.
There is certainly, when you are thinking about buying any type of insurance, you want to make sure you understand the language in the policy. You want to understand what is excluded, and you want to understand the limitations of that policy as well, and make sure that whatever coverage you think you have is what you actually have.
What about confidentiality? Let’s say a neighbor goes into hospice, and I know they have a pet, and they do not have any other family, but I do know that you are their attorney. Can I call you and say, “I am Mrs. Smith’s neighbor, and there is a dog there, can you check her?” I do not know if this is permitted, “Will or trust, and see if there is any provision for this pet?”
Correct. If you are talking to your neighbor or trying to just put someone on alert about the dog or the animal, I certainly would be unable to disclose specifics regarding their estate plan to you. You, as the concerned neighbor, should reach out to anyone that you know who knows something about this individual, who is either disabled or in the hospital, if there is an animal involved. Even if there is a language, there are other things that folks can do in the absence of a plan. An estate planning attorney is certainly in a really good position to know who the next of kin is and then reach out to the children to make sure that they are aware of certain issues.
Yes, neighbors, friends, whether it is someone at your church, to the extent you become aware of someone whose health is declining. It is not a bad idea to reach out to those whom you know are their trusted advisors to help put them on alert and start working through this process. In an ideal scenario, that individual did some planning. At least talk to people to make sure that there are individuals who are ready to step up. I tell clients, hope is not an estate plan. Just because you hope that the kids will figure it out, that’s not estate planning. We hear that far too often, and especially with pets.
Hope is not an estate plan. Hoping your kids will figure it out isn’t planning—and we hear this far too often, especially when it comes to pets. Share on XKids have their own lives and their own interests. It is just like now, when you say, maybe you have some antique furniture, kids do not want that. They want the Pottery Barn stuff. You know what I mean? Force what you like onto other people, and to think that people have busy lives now, and I just think that planning is so important. I just picture that EMTs are going into a household where a widow lives and she has got this little poodle, and they have to take her to the hospital, and there is this dog left behind. I am thinking maybe EMTs, when they get to the hospital, would contact social services or something of that nature.
They may, ideally, if they do, the next of kin is alerted, and the next of kin says, “I have got good news. Mom planned. I know where Mom’s plan is. That plan includes diet and feeding routines for this little poodle. The veterinary preferences include the medications that this poodle is on, including all the grooming habits that we have done, and the behavioral notes. Again, I mentioned before, the most common thing we see is dogs being afraid of thunderstorms.
If that happens to be the case, that is something that we want in the plan. Beyond just this information, there is money that is left for the care to handle these things because Mom did everything.” That is ideal. It really is. It is not overly onerous to put in place a plan and fund your plan. That is one of the most common misconceptions that it is a lot of work, it is a lot of money, but if you love your pet, you really want to take the time and spend a little bit of money making sure that there is a plan in place.
Navigating Euthanasia Clauses In Estate Planning
I do not see this much anymore, but early on in practice, we would have an occasional client who would say, and this is horrible, in my opinion, “If something happens to me, I want the dog or cat put down because I do not think anyone could take care of this pet as well as I do.” As a veterinarian, I would never put a pet down for reasons like that. I am just curious as a veterinarian, if I had any defense against that, if they had already put something on paper that said that.
Unfortunately, it goes back to what we said in the very beginning. I do not want to give you more work, Alice, to start lobbying your lawmakers, but pets are property. That is the way it is right now. People can decide what they want done with their property upon their passing. That is the way the Ohio statutes are written. Pets are still property. Ohio statutes do obviously recognize pet trusts and the ability to provide for pets in a pet trust.
Yes, unfortunately, there really is no ability for you as the veterinarian to override that, unfortunately, to say, “This pet has a lot of life left, and if I get involved can intervene.” What I would say, to the extent you become aware of those wishes before the death of that individual, then you have the ability to maybe give them another thought. “Maybe think about this.”
You are right. Because maybe the few people that they have and the few relatives are not pet people, and I can tell you, I have seen some of these senior dogs that were discarded, for lack of a better word, for whatever reason. They come into a second life, and they are happy. For someone to think that no one could give that pet a better life than what they have, I dispute because I have seen it.
I agree. I would say oftentimes, the people who think that the life that they are giving their pet, if they ultimately feel that the best thing to do is to euthanize that pet because no one else can give this pet a better life, there probably are a lot of people who could give the pet a better life than they have already. That’s probably the reality. That is just a guess. That is not a legal opinion.
If I find a stray dog, and I call, and it is microchipped, we have seen this in rescue, they say to me, “I gave that dog to somebody else months ago.” I have to believe that. The microchip is still registered to you, and I found the dog, and it is not in good shape. Is that still the legal owner, the microchip-registered person, or is it a license-based person?
The microchip is not a license. It is just an identifier, and it is a tool. If we just apply basic property rules, that individual who says that they gave the dog away is still living, and they said, “Look, I gave this dog away to Joe months ago. That is not my dog anymore.” To me, that sounds like they have abandoned the property. We treat it like abandoned property.
They have given up all of their legal rights to that particular dog, the individual who says, “I gave that dog away.” Again, there are processes in place that you cannot legally just let your dog roam and give it away and abandon it that way. There are proper protocols that pet owners need to follow in order to not wind up sided and fined and all of that. Yes, if they abandon their animal by way of a transfer, they also give up legal rights as well.
Abandonment, I can tell you, helping out these shelters, it is rampant. Someone will tie a dog to a post and leave it there. Today, there was someone who backed up in a parking lot at Tractor Supply, threw the dog out, and then left them. Of course, the dog chases because it is their owner, regardless of what kind of crap owner it was or not. Are you seeing a lot of people providing for their pets in their trusts? Do you have to bring it up to them?
I would say a lot of people, as I was preparing to participate in this podcast, I have been thinking about a lot of clients who have dogs and cats and those types of things. I would say the vast majority are not formalizing plans for their pets in their estate planning. Being asked to be on this podcast, in my mind, I see opportunities to help just get people thinking about it. Just as I implored you to be on the front line as a vet to identify when pet owners may need to consult with their attorneys and advisors to provide planning.
I think I am also on the front line when I am drafting these plans, and I am sitting at a kitchen table, and I am petting Fido, and Fido is not even planned for in the documents, you know? That is on me as well to at least make sure that we are talking about it. I will tell you that on a going-forward basis, when I know there are animals, I am going to be talking about it every time and make sure that even if it was not an initial thought, it is definitely something that families are talking about and being intentional about.
In my profession, I think we should do that as well. I had a lot of generation pets that I saw, people that were in their 40s when I saw them, and then they were 75 when I retired, and this was their third pet. It is something as veterinarians, I know a lot of the younger vets never think they are going to hit 40. You know what I am saying? It needs to be thought of and brought up to pet owners, and say, not like, “You’re no spring chicken anymore,” but did you ever think if you would fall and break a hip or whatever?
I am telling you, these people that I saw at 40 that are now 75 still think they can deal with a 75-pound yellow Lab as they are being pulled down the hall in my office. I have my staff take the dog out to the car. One interesting story, my friend Sandy, who is a retired emergency room nurse and heads up the Golden Retriever Rescue locally, the EMTs brought in an elderly patient, and she was telling Sandy, “I had to leave my little dog, and there is no one at home.” Sandy ran over to this woman’s house on her lunch hour and took care of the dog.
My hope after that, and I know Sandy followed through on it, was to tell social services so that they could maybe contact a relative, like you had mentioned earlier, Nolan, another point of care or an agency, one of the local rescues and maybe give them permission to go in and just take the dog for a few days until the lady, because this is what we do not have. We do not have something like rehab. When humans are in the hospital, and then they are well enough to get out, but not yet to go home, we do not have anywhere like an interim place.
We have a kennel that you could place the dog in. I know as vets, we will keep some of those dogs for a few days for some of our well-known clients to help ease that burden on them. It is really kind of sad that, like you said, in our will or trust, we can put in the person to take care, but it might be a good idea to put in the name of a kennel and phone number. Certainly, like you said, your veterinarian.
Certainly, the name of the veterinarian, the name of the preferred boarding facilities, and medications. I really mean it. Write down the plan and have a little something that you can keep in your wallet or in the fridge. The reason I mentioned the wallet is that what happens if something happens to you and you’re outside of your home. You are rock climbing or whatever, and no one knows, you end up in an ambulance. No one knows you left your dog at home. You were only planning to be away for a few hours, and a few hours turned into a few days. It takes a while before word travels that you had an accident. Making sure that, again, it is pretty easy for other people to step in and come to the rescue for that animal at home.
That reminds me, Nolan, I had a client who was a single elderly gal, and she had two dogs and was actually, God bless her, pulling a trailer to Florida from Cleveland, and you know those hills in West Virginia on 77. The trailer jackknifed. Long story short, the fire department rescued her and was nice enough to take the dogs to the local shelter temporarily until she got out of the hospital. Which I thought was a wonderful thing because you read about these accidents. I saw a lot in Florida where people were in an accident.
Ensuring Pet Safety And Security During Travel
The dog was not tethered in the car, which is another big mistake. He got off, and they spent the rest of two weeks looking for this dog, which, when a dog or cat gets loose in an unknown area, they literally turn feral. I know you do not want to think that about your pets, but they do. They are confused. They are running for home, wherever that is. To have something in your wallet or even on your phone, if you end up at the person’s home. It would be a good idea.
I agree 100%. Just thinking through all those what-if scenarios. That is incredibly important when you have a pet and then thinking of your pet beyond the way that the law thinks of them, beyond if your pet is family. Think of them the same way you think of your family and how you want to provide for them.
If your pet is family, treat them the same way you would any loved one—plan for how you want them to be cared for and provided for. Share on XPlanning For Farm Animals And Livestock
What about farm animals? Are they considered property as well?
They are. They are livestock. They are treated the same way. When people have farm animals, and a lot of times, if you’re running an actual production farm, those companies plan for their livestock like anything else, and that’s beyond property, which is inventory. There are other ways to think about that in that regard, but individuals who have a hobby farm and have got a couple of chickens and some goats, sheep, and those types of things, you still want to plan for that. The same way it gets a little bit more complicated, the more animals you have. You should, and there are a lot of folks that live where you and I live that have chickens running around, and you want to make sure that those chickens are still able to lay farm-fresh eggs and all those things.
It is funny you mentioned that because last week we had Dr. Pitesky from UC Davis. He is also known as Dr. Clark. I have to tell you, raising chickens, it is difficult. I always thought you just had chickens and you threw the chicken feed out, but really, you have to prepare it with a brooder and all these words that I wasn’t even familiar with. I cannot even imagine if a friend of mine who had goats and chickens would call me and say, “Alice, if something happens to me, can you take the goats or chickens?” I am like, “If I can fit them in the car, driving to Florida, sure, I’ll take them.” Having said that, if you’re leaving those types of animals to someone, you have to make sure zoning is okay with that in the new location.
I would say a lot of times, what we see with that is someone is going to come to that place and inherit that place, inherit the farm or whatever the case may be. It is part of the deal that they are going to care for the animals that are on that farm. Making sure that is part of the plan. We see it with sheep farmers and those types of things, and all of that.
You really have to get to know your client intimately because you need to know if they have pets, or maybe a farm in Nebraska? They might forget to mention.
My job is to ask a lot of questions. A lot of the process in the very beginning is just really unpacking all of those things. I ask people, from a financial perspective, do you have that farm in Nebraska? What do you do with that farm in Nebraska? More often than not, a lot of times if they do have something like that, it is here. I would have seen it come out, and I see that they are raising a few chickens.
I see that because that farm in Nebraska, if there are animals there, it is generally livestock again. That’s a business. It is run a little bit differently, and there tend to be things in place there. Again, you cannot assume that every contingency is planned for, but to your point, it is really important for me to get to know my clients very well to make sure that not only are we planning for the kids, but taking care of the animals as well.
One last question. What do you do in a case of a divorce where they are fighting over the pet? How is that awarded? The woman says, “I took better care of it.” How do you even broach that?
I am not a divorce attorney, and I am also not divorced. I do not really know exactly how that works, but I would assume if I were a judge, I would put my judge robe on, my imaginary judge robe. If I were a judge, I would certainly consider the totality of the circumstances. What I mean by that is if one party says, “I provided all of the care,” and the other party says, “I provided all the money.” You want to figure out what the best approach would be and what is probably best for the animal. In that instance, there probably is some sort of shared arrangement. I would imagine they probably would do something very similar to how courts come down on how kids get shared.
They ask the pet, “Which parent do you want?”
Yes, exactly. Unfortunately, you cannot have a guardian ad litem talk to the dog. If I were ever a judge, maybe I would just “Bring the dog. You stand on one end, you stand on the other end. Let us see who he comes to.”
He has the snacks.
Someone put the snacks. “Empty your pockets.” In cases of divorce, there is really no hard and fast rule, I would imagine. Again, because pets are property just like anything else, it is how we divide property in the event of a divorce.
It’s so sad that they are property.
I know.
To summarize, you had mentioned a health care power of attorney. You could also provide for the pet in that, correct?
Yes. What you want to do is in your healthcare power of attorney, in the event that you are incapacitated, you want it to be known that should I have a domesticated animal, this is what I want done with respect to my domesticated animal, in the event that I am incapacitated, I think. As I mentioned before, the durable financial power of attorney is probably the best place to address pet care in the event of incapacity. If we are looking at our revocable trust, we have our revocable trust.
The durable financial power of attorney is often the best place to address pet care in the event of incapacity. Share on XWe can provide pet trust provisions in a standard revocable trust. We can incorporate that language within your revocable trust. The other thing, some people have standalone pet trusts. Those are a little bit more complex, and depending on the circumstances, maybe it does make sense to have a standalone pet trust. We typically see those with exotic animals or animals that are going to live way longer.
I mentioned tortoises, birds, and parrots. We would typically see that. You want to consider when you’re funding those, the pet’s life expectancy, and certain breed-specific costs if you’ve got one of these exotic breeds. The medical history of that pet. Everyone and their Bernedoodle, I feel like all my Bernedoodle friends hate to think Bernedoodles are great, but I feel like they are always at the vet. I do not know. Do you see a lot of Bernedoodles, or doodles in general?
We just lost at the rescue, from Addison’s disease, a Poodle St. Bernard mix. These doodle crosses, I know why people want them because they do not shed, but standard poodles have some problems, poodles have problems, and you are combining that with another breed that has problems as well, and it is not always good. You are absolutely right, and the other thing, Nolan, they are either really sweet or very anxious and nervous. I do not like having an anxious, nervous dog around small children. It is personality-wise. You’ve got to choose carefully. I get why they are mixing them.
Establishing Backups To The Backups
I get it, but I do not agree with it. Yes, you are right. The Bernedoodles and almost every Doodle now have some before it. The other thing you mentioned was having a backup to the backup, because one of the reasons that I redid my trust is my best friend, who would have taken my cats should something happened to me. She passed away. I wanted to make sure I provided that, so I had to scarf up somebody else who would want these two mangy mutts that I love with all my heart. You need a backup to the backup because this friend of mine died at a young age, who knew that would happen.
I tell people, a plan that assumes everything goes right is not a real plan. You have to have backups to the backups. You can have your well-laid plan, but you have to have that plan for what if things do not go as planned. That is a plan.
I also love the saying that you used with hope.
Hope is not an estate plan.
It is the same as winning the lottery is not your retirement.
Winning the lottery is not your retirement plan. We joke about it. I have got young kids, and we play all types of sports, and you say, “Your kids are not your retirement plan either. Your kids becoming professional athletes is not your retirement plan.”
With some of these traveling teams, it might as well be. It’s almost like on a professional level with these kids.
We have got one travel athlete in our house, and it is a lot.
It’s very stressful.
As I said, I know the folks that are tuning in to this probably already have done this great work in terms of planning for their animals, but I am hoping that something that we talked about gives them just a nugget to think about and make sure that everything is buttoned up. Even if it is as simple as, “I don’t have that little card in my wallet. I need a little card in my wallet that lets everybody know that I’ve got Fido at home. This is when he eats, and he is on a page, and this is his vet.”
People need to talk to their attorney and also to their veterinarian so that everyone is in the picture. I know that we do not really talk to our neighbors much anymore, but be aware that your neighbors have pets. Look out for them. If you do not see them for a couple of days, that might mean that the pet has not been fed for a couple of days. What happened over there next door? If you see something, say something, actually. I cannot thank you enough, Nolan. If this saves one pet, I think it was well worth it. Seriously, because we need to provide for them, even though the state of Ohio treats them as property. We know they are not property.
I agree. Pets are family. We have to treat them like they are.
That is right. Anyway, we’re going to wrap it up again. Former Akron Zip or you will always be an Akron Zip, right?
Once a Zip, always a Zip.
Once a Buckeye, always a Buckeye. I know because they keep calling from the Alumni Foundation. To remind me. That’s the story. We are going to wind it up. Our thanks to Nolan James for these helpful hints. Listen, I cannot imagine what this hour would have cost all you audiences. Nolan was kind enough to donate an hour of his time to help us prepare for our health, as well as the health of our pets. Thanks again, Nolan.
Alice, thank you for having me. Truly a pleasure. Always good to see you.
Same here. Listen, everyone out there, send your questions to SOPPodcast.com to our webpage. We are always happy to answer your questions and your calls. Until next time, everyone, kiss your pets for us.
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About Attorney Nolan James
Nolan T. James has joined UB Greensfelder LLP as trust and estates counsel in the firm’s Cleveland office. Nolan advises individuals, families, and business owners on estate planning, trust administration, probate, and related corporate and real estate matters. He develops estate plans tailored to clients’ personal, tax, and business objectives and counsels closely held companies on formation, governance, succession planning, and middle-market transactions.
He previously practiced at Cleveland-based Cavitch Familo & Durkin, where he focused on estate planning, closely held business counseling, and real estate. Earlier in his career, Nolan founded Nolan James Legal Group and served as corporate counsel at The Fedeli Group. UB Greensfelder is an Am Law 200 firm with more than 25 practice and industry groups, serving regional, national, and global businesses from offices across the Midwest.